How do I work this radiator?

scarletjim

This has been bugging me for ages, about time I did something about it. I have a radiator in my en suite. When I bought this house, the seller said the radiator is linked to the underfloor heating, but also has an electronic override in the boiler cupboard so that the radiator can come on for an hour or so in morning and evening during the summer when the underfloor heating isn't on. But how on earth does this work? (Well, for me, it doesn't!)

In the link below is a picture of the radiator. It has two valves, one on bottom left and one on bottom right. If I turn them both fully to the left, the radiator is on 24 hours a day (ok in winter, but much too hot now that summer is (allegedly) approaching. If I turn them both to the right, the radiator is off 24 hours a day, even in the winter when the underfloor heating is on.

I've also put a picture of the control panel in the boiler cupboard that supposedly controls the override for this radiator.

Does anyone know what might be wrong? If not, can anyone at least explain how this system is supposed to work in theory? Surely the valves mean the radiator is either on or off, how can the underfloor heating have any impact?

https://dumpyourphoto.com/album/60SoEvZr68

Thanks to anyone who can help or maybe even just educate me a bit!

Ruski

Bit more info needed really:

Is the UF heating in the bathroom on the same circuit as the rest of the house?

If you turn only the 'heating' on this controller - what get's hot?

If you turn only the 'water' ditto ?

If this is a completely separate system, I would have thought it would be 'heating' controls the UFH and 'Water' controls the towel rad: at least that's how I'd do it.

Can you post pics of an valves and pumps in the airing cupboard too?

Russ

scarletjim

Morning Russ, thanks for your initial thoughts. I've added 3 more pictures to the original link - the wiring, boxes, actuator etc immediately below the timer switch in the airing cupboard, the boiler itself, and the other cupboard upstairs which contains the underfloor heating mechanics. To answer your questions:

1. When you say 'same circuit', I'm not entirely sure what this means. The en suite has its own thermostat controller, and judging by the pipes in that other cupboard, its own water pipes to provide the heat - so I assume that means it's on a different circuit to the other rooms.

2. They've actually set the control box up the opposite way to your assumption below - when I press 'hot water advance' I can hear something happening, and I believe this gives me additional hot water - it definitely doesn't make the radiator hot. When I press 'heating advance', which the booklet marked by the previous owners suggest should work the towel rail radiator, I can't hear anything happening, and the radiator doesn't heat up.

But a question - if this control box was/is working correctly, how would it be impacted by the positioning of the 2 valves on the radiator itself? I just don't understand how this whole system works, I don't see how the radiator can be controlled by two different things...

Are there any other pictures you need to help me further? (Apologies for my very obvious ignorance on these things...)

Annie1960

I'll probably confuse matters by getting involved in this thread, but the programmer in your picture is the same as the one I have just inherited, having moved house.

In my house, the heating in this programmer does the whole house, not just the bathroom radiator. I also have a bathroom radiator very similar to yours, and I had to turn just one of the knobs (can't recall which one) to get it to turn off, otherwise it came on with the rest of the heating.

Try just turning one of the knobs at a time and see what happens.

scarletjim

Annie1960 wrote: »

I had to turn just one of the knobs (can't recall which one) to get it to turn off, otherwise it came on with the rest of the heating.

The problem is, mine doesn't just come on with the rest of the heating, it is on 24 hours a day - or off 24 hours a day if I turn both knobs fully the other way.


I did experiment last summer with turning them to different positions, but it was still either permanently on or permanently off, then I ended up with a leak from the radiator in the other bathroom, which penetrated through to my kitchen ceiling, presumably from messing about with it too much without knowing what I was doing. Someone explained to me that you have to know what you're doing with such things, otherwise you might (for example) allow the water into the radiator, but give it nowhere to go by having the other side closed...


So I'm hoping someone can explain to me what the two valves do, and how they relate to a). the underfloor heating system, and b). the electric switch to override it.

Ruski

Do you have another programmer somewhere? What you are describing doesn't make sense otherwise!

Russ

PheoUK

Whats that Fused Connection Unit (FCU) doing in one of the pictures? its off, one wonders if this is a circulation pump for that rad... but then its off.

Le_Kirk

Radiators have an inlet and an outlet, they have a control valve (knob) on each one. Sometimes there is a Thermostatic Radiator Valve (TRV) on one end but you don't seem to have those. If you turn off either of the valves you will get no flow through the radiator and it will be cold. Sometimes people use the inlet valve to control the flow and therefore the temperature of individual rads. This is sporadic in its effectiveness.


Not sure what you mean by "its either on or off" You have a fairly standard looking Drayton controller which would allow hot water and heating to be controlled separately via a thermostat and a three way valve. Do you have a thermostat somewhere, presumably downstairs in hall or similar place? You seem to have a three way valve in the picture just below the main controller but I cannot see if it is two way or three way from the way the photo is taken. I can see the vertical pile but not a horizontal one. I think you need to start by tracing the pipework from the bathroom radiator to see where it connects to the boiler pipework. The photo showing what appears to be the under floor heating also has valves on but again the photo cuts off the view.

scarletjim

Hmm, to answer the questions above as best I can:

Russ / everyone: Yes there are some more controllers, but I didn't think they were relevant. I have 3 cupboards in my house with heating equipment of various types, let me explain:

In the water tank cupboard upstairs, I have the water tank itself and the controller that is supposed to override my towel radiator (and also to provide extra hot water if required on the other button). In another cupboard upstairs, the one in the picture with all the metal pipes and white pipes, is the underfloor heating mechanics and control box. (I've added more pictures to show this better). Then there is another cupboard downstairs with this same underfloor heating equipment again, with another control box. Each room in the house has its own thermostat, and the two underfloor heating control boxes (one for upstairs and other for downstairs) allow the underfloor heating to supply heat when required by these thermostats. Apologies for not giving the full story originally, I must confess, I thought these other two cupboards and control boxes were irrelevant to my problem, as they appear to work fine. Maybe they are irrelevant, but maybe you do need to understand the context of my full system to help me with my problem...

Russ / All - does that adequately explain, or do you have further questions on the system generally?

Now on to PheoUK - having just looked up FCU to see what it means (lol), an odd-job friend told me a few months ago that it is there to heat the water via an electrical heating element in the event that my gas boiler fails for some reason - a short-term solution to get hot water I guess. So I expect that is a red herring for this problem - but thanks.

And finally Le_Kirk: Many thanks for the explanation, much appreciated. First, to explain what I mean by 'either on or off' - I would like the radiator to come on / go off with the underfloor heating in the winter, and then come on for an hour or so in the morning and again in the evening in the summer when the underfloor heating isn't on at all. When I say 'either on or off' I mean that there is currently no timing of when it goes on or off - if I open the valves, the radiator is very hot 24 hours a day irrespective of what the underfloor heating in that room is doing. And if I close the valves, the radiator is cold 24 hours a day irrespective of what the underfloor heating is doing.

Now a question on your first paragraph - so if I opened the inlet valve just a little, say half a turn, and left the outlet one closed, what would that do?

With regard to the pictures, do the new ones I've added from the underfloor heating system cupboard help? I assume they were irrelevant as in a different room and for a different purpose, but maybe I was wrong. If you want bigger view of any particular picture, please let me know the image number on my link and I'll be happy to provide.

https://dumpyourphoto.com/album/60SoEvZr68

Thanks so much to everyone who is trying to help, things like this really restore my faith in humanity.

marlot

Leave the valves open! Radiators work by flowing hot water through them!

As you say there is a separate controller for the rest of the house ...

If you turn both sides of that controller to 'off', see if the radiator then goes cold. If so, then its simply a matter of adjusting the timer to suit what you want.

marlot

In this picture, it seems the pressure is low in the system.

https://dumpyourphoto.com/album/photo/qwP6h9e15Z

As you're out of your depth, can I suggest you get a plumber in. You need to top up the system.