MSE News: Cameron wins the election, but what does it mean for your wallet?

unholyangel

arcon5 wrote: »

We receive in work benefits and due to each of our earnings pay shockingly little in tax - and this extra money we get from the government genuinely takes us out of what would be absolute poverty and gives us the ability to at least live a reasonable quality of life - we're not exactly wel off but can afford some luxuries and a chicken dinner each week.

Yet, despite our lack of contributions we also get free health care, which we've experienced over the last 12 months to be exceptional.
Our household bills don't seem to have risen over the last few years, in fact over the last year it has fallen significantly (thanks to aldi and fuel prices).
Our council have recently agreed to help us with our rent.

And it's thanks to our benefits system i'm on course to undertake an apprenticeship next year and will receive support to help with my even lower wage. Yet, just one month after I start i'll get a 60p p/h pay rise, come January we'll get 15 free hours child care, and this year my OH will pay less tax and see her wage increase thanks to NMW.

So we as a family are very appreciative of the system that is in place, despite the many criticisms.

I feel like the system in place is one that won't make me wealthy but does allows me opportunity.

Okay there are many short comings and what appear like injustices, particularly in the way they deal with apprentices that are over 24, in the way i've had to pay £000s for my current studies because we earned slightly more than the guy next to me who got a full remission. Of course there are many around me who are in two parent families who seem to have more money than me... so maybe there is an argument some areas of society receiving benefits are receiving too much.

But when I finally qualify in my chosen industry, and if I become successful with a good pay pack I won't begrudge paying in to the system but will expect to be frowned up on by the poorer whom see the rich through tinted glasses. Of course using the term rich lightly, since the government seem to think 40% on income of £42k is reasonable. So it could be said the better off do get given a hard time in the taxation system as well.

Just my view from the bottom really.

Well someone who earns more than double the average salary certainly isnt poor

However I dont really think your view is the bottom. If things were improving for everyone, the number of people living below the poverty line wouldnt have increased by 65% in just two years (to put it into perspective, a quarter of the UK live below the poverty line).

I'm in a good job so cuts don't affect me. But I'm also that type of individual who actually cares what happens to other people and not just how it affects me. I mean really, whats the point of humanity if we have no compassion?


The simple fact is not everyone can get a good paying job. If they did, there would be no one left to serve burgers with bacon at mcdonalds, no one to clean the toilets, sweep the streets (and do all the other jobs that I personally wouldn't touch with a 10ft barge pole).

unholyangel

davestretty wrote: »

Check the real tax rates and bands which include National Insurance contributions as well as income tax, and also see how vat at 20% and council tax( both flat rate taxes i.e. not income dependent) influences the "real" rate of tax we pay. They will shock you.

Poor people tend to pay more tax as they spend all their income and each time you spend, its taxed - until theres nothing left to tax.

More money spent in the economy = more jobs created.

arcon5

unholyangel wrote: »

Well someone who earns more than double the average salary certainly isnt poor

But I didn't say you was poor. I said you are not rich! And to hit that sum and suddenly over 50% inc NICs to be taken away is absurd.

Vortigern

"Second, we're bringing in a new single-tier pension in 2016 of at least £151.20 a week, which will make sure it pays to save."

Did Cameron really say that? - or is it just poor reporting?

"at least £151.20 a week" is clearly not true. It's not a minimum amount, many will get less than that.

"which will make sure it pays to save" - Saving has nothing to do with the State Pension, it depends on National Insurance contributions only.

This part of the discussion belongs in the pensions forum, not here.

wiltsguy_2

well I am not ashamed to admit i voted for them for the reasons above! Im sick and tired of being taxed to the hilt! my wife and I only earn just over £60k and fed up with being taxed to support those that choose to sit at home all day and claim benefits when they can get a job, but choose not to due to be better off claiming!

The ones i feel sorry for are the genuine claimants that can't work or are down on their luck,but for the minority(or is it majority?) that are just pulling a fast one or are just plain lazy, i have no sympathy whatsoever! it's not down to the hardworking public to fund their lifestyle of breeding and sitting around all day........

unholyangel

arcon5 wrote: »

But I didn't say you was poor. I said you are not rich! And to hit that sum and suddenly over 50% inc NICs to be taken away is absurd.

But you only pay that amount on earnings above that limit.

For example someone earning £60,000 a year will pay 29% of their salary in Tax & NI - leaving them £42-43k to spend. Someone earning £40k will pay 24% in Tax & NI. Someone earning 20k will pay 17% of their salary.

Do you think everyone should pay the same regardless of personal wealth?

Yes its disheartening to see reductions on your payslip of such amounts. But thats the price we pay. We pay over £1 billion every week in interest of our national debt. Thats £34 a week for every income tax payer (and those figures are from 2 years ago - our debt has increased since).

For some reason no one seems to mind paying that but mind paying the disabled and elderly - who are innocent victims in the fallout of the government blaming the poor for their mistakes.

unholyangel

btw our deficit is still 6% of GDP. Our debt (as GDP) has increased over 2% to 90%. And that is WITH all the austerity cuts. Even if our deficit goes down, our debt continues to rise because they are still borrowing.

Imagine how much more we need to cut in order to get rid of the deficit, afford the interest payments AND actually repay the debt. £82 billion just to balance the books - not to actually repay the debt.

May as well grab our ankles now and brace for impact. Thats £1300 a year for every man, woman and child in the UK.

arcon5

unholyangel wrote: »

But you only pay that amount on earnings above that limit.

For example someone earning £60,000 a year will pay 29% of their salary in Tax & NI - leaving them £42-43k to spend. Someone earning £40k will pay 24% in Tax & NI. Someone earning 20k will pay 17% of their salary.

Do you think everyone should pay the same regardless of personal wealth?

Yes its disheartening to see reductions on your payslip of such amounts. But thats the price we pay. We pay over £1 billion every week in interest of our national debt. Thats £34 a week for every income tax payer (and those figures are from 2 years ago - our debt has increased since).

For some reason no one seems to mind paying that but mind paying the disabled and elderly - who are innocent victims in the fallout of the government blaming the poor for their mistakes.

I don't agree with 40% and I don't think its starting point is right. I didn't say paying more was wrong.

And there's the flawed logic, income tax is a percentage - the rich never may the same as the poor. A person on £20k will pay (rounding for simplicity) £2k whereas a person on £100k will pay £18k if they was in the same tax bracket. Not exactly paying the same.

I think the rich some pay a higher percentage yes, but I don't think £42k is rich and I don't think 40% of your income is reasonable at that level!
Is there any wonder so many people form limited companies for tax savings or corporations go off shore when I tax bands do nothing but punish the successful?

What if a household has a working couple, both earning £30k... collectively paying £8k in tax, net £52k. Whereas a household with only one of the two earners making £60k, they pay £14k in tax, net £46k.
What a massive injustice!

But back to the point in hand, the benefits system is quick to take a beating and the government is often criticised for seeing the poor worse off - yet we neglect the fact we actually have a system that despite some flaws does genuinely pull a majority out of poverty and provide a life line and opportunity to many more.
You only need to talk to your parents or grandparents to figure out how easy we have it these days. Or most people may just be the right age to remember back to their childhood where the father was working 6-7 days per week and still had nothing to show for it.

arcon5

And for what it's worth, I wouldn't be against cutting back on certain benefits either, with the exception of pensions and disability benefits. The latter should be designed to support the persons in a reasonably quality of life - the former types of benefits to prop up the poorer until a time they can support themselves.

Trix3y

Once again retired people are being told everything is good in their world. However, having contributed for forty four years I do not feel my pension is anywhere near adequate.The so called perks of heating allowance,bus pass etc are welcome, but only given because Britain s pension is one of the lowest in Europe.The Heating Allowance has not changed for many years despite the escalating cost of heating and electricity. Most wealthy pensioners do not use the bus,preferring their car. Added to this has been the non existent rates for any small savings,complete waste of time having put anything aside. Finally can all GOVERNMENTS stop referring to the state pension as welfare. It is not a hand out as pensioners have paid for this all their working lives.The use of language is very powerful and could make some younger people struggling to pay back student debts, rents and general cost of living resent older people thinking we are all living off the welfare system.