if you are able to save

margaretclare

missile wrote: »

At no time have I held or expressed the predjudices which you appear to be assigning to me.

Looking back over your posts in this thread, yes, you have expressed those type of views. Whether they're 'prejudices' that you hold would seem to be borne out by your words. You have a negative opinion of some pensioners' income and outgoings and you extrapolate that to include all pensioners. You quote 'the experts' and on looking up most of the links quoted, they're written by journalists. I'm not sure that a journalist is an expert on anything - he/she is a person with a column to fill - with the honourable exception of Martin who is an expert on moneysaving, which is why we're all here.

Both EdInvestor and I have pointed out that possibly pensioners fall into several different groups. The poorest are going to be mainly women at the older end of the age spectrum who live alone and who live only on the basic state pension with pension credit. For them, housing costs and council tax are possibly an irrelevance because these will be paid for from the benefits system. Probably those worst off are the ones that AgeConcern describe as 'Just above the breadline', and these I feel most sorry for. The next group will be those like DH and I with a long working life between us (over a century!) who paid for our own pensions and who are 'comfortable', not rich, not poor. There are retired people who are much richer than we are - much, much richer! The point is, all of us come under the heading 'retired people' or 'pensioners'. The preferred stereotype of pensioners, however, is that picture that appeared in the BBC report - an old woman counting the small change in her purse. This is how some people would like to see us all portrayed. It wouldn't be a true picture.

DH and I are planning the 'holiday of a lifetime' for next year, and it isn't a cruise, it's a drive up the Rhine valley from Rotterdam to Bodensee (Lake Constance). Before that we need to replace the car at the end of this year, when it comes up to its MOT. All of this can be done out of savings.

I often find there's a kind of 'sour grapes' attitude that people sometimes express about pensioners who are 'comfortable', as we are. It may be an attempt to make us feel guilty, forgetting that we did both work darned hard from ages 16 to 67 just to make it possible. 15 years ago I was scratching for every penny, doing menial jobs just to keep the roof over my head following widowhood and redundancy. I don't need to be told that 'some pensioners can't save'. I don't need to be told that I'm lucky.

I don't really see much point in adding to this thread any further, because you obviously have an entrenched point of view and are not going to see my viewpoint.

Margaret

missile

You seem determined to pick fault, when it is you who has posted several inaccurate statements. I certaily do not hold the views that you are assigning to me and even if I did, I feel equaly entitled to express my view as do you.

The link you appear to disagree with most was written by Ian Taylor MP. As far as I know he is not and never has been a journalist.

Probably those worst off are the ones that AgeConcern describe as 'Just above the breadline'

Something we can agree on? - actually I said that before you :rotfl:

I would suggest the pensioners least well off are those just above the limit, or too proud to claim benefit to which they are entitled.

margaretclare

missile wrote: »

You seem determined to pick fault, when it is you who has posted several inaccurate statements. I certaily do not hold the views that you are assigning to me and even if I did, I feel equaly entitled to express my view as do you.

What are the inaccurate statements that I have posted?

The link you appear to disagree with most was written by Ian Taylor MP. As far as I know he is not and never has been a journalist.

He's a politician, and I find that I agree with very few politicians.

Something we can agree on? - actually I said that before you

Yes, but please do not extrapolate 'some pensioners' to include 'all pensioners'. Even by saying 'pensioners' rather than specifying which ones, you are stereotyping large numbers of people who do not fall within the preferred view of 'poor pensioners'. Some of us are not poor.

Margaret

missile

I do not see any stigma attached to the word "pensioner", to me it simply means anyone in receipt of a pension. One would hardly class Lord Browne as poor?

Why do you feel you have more right than I to express a view on pensioners?

glossy123

I find it very disappointing that some feel it appropriate to use these threads for an argument amongst themselves - particularly since as I understood it the whole purpose of Martin's site is to help others.
I am not interested in reading sniping comments and seeing who ends up temporarily on top of the argument and I am sure a lot of others would agree.
When you have limited time to browse the forum you are looking for ideas and constructive discussion. You may be OAP's but I think, like my sister who is getting near that point, it is time to grow up!

EdInvestor

glossy123 wrote: »

argument

sniping comments

constructive discussion...

Along with "friendly banter" and "wide ranging debate" not to mention "strong disagreement", interpretations of this kind of thing can often be in the eye of the beholder.

We discuss quite a lot of things on this site which are controversial.Finance and politics in particular can be quite like that and policy on pension issues genetrates considerable controversy every day in the outside world.

Many other posters have said however that they learn from such MSE exchanges even if occasionally heated.To my mind, that's the basic point.None of us is too old to learn.

margaretclare

Thanks, Ed.

I actually started out agreeing with Kittie for her useful post about NS&I certificates as a way of saving. Kittie's thread was headed 'IF you are able to save' and I regret that the whole discussion got hijacked into a diversion about 'most pensioners are not taxpayers' and 'pensioners are poor people who can't afford to save'. Which is a stereotype that I take strong exception to.

I have recently started saving in NS&I, the index-linked certificates, not the 'granny bonds' which pay you income - I don't need any more income. I intend to save with them @ £100 every 4 weeks and we'll see how they perform.

Before anyone jumps in to tell me how lucky I am to be able to save, I know it well. DH and I are saving now whereas we were never able to in earlier decades of our lives. We don't know what we may need in years to come.

Margaret

missile

I hope I never get too old to enjoy a good debate :rotfl:

EdInvestor

margaretclare wrote: »

I have recently started saving in NS&I, the index-linked certificates, not the 'granny bonds' which pay you income - I don't need any more income. I intend to save with them @ £100 every 4 weeks and we'll see how they perform.

On another thread Kittie mentions that she set up a maturity "ladder" of N&SI certs ( known as "index linkers" I believe) so that there would be a rolling income stream further down the track after retirement.

It would be interesting to hear the mechanics of how to do this, as there are so few tax-free income investments around. Although involving some advance planning it doesn't sound as though it's too complicated for an experienced "rate tart".

cheerfulcat

EdInvestor wrote: »

up a maturity "ladder" of N&SI certs ( known as "index linkers" I believe)

Nope, " linkers " are index linked gilts.