Changing tenants without ending tenancy... advice for a new tenant.

leonard-on-his-bike

Hi,

I am soon moving into a house with 2 friends, one of whom has already been there for a year with 2 other people who are moving out, and now myself and someone else are moving into their rooms.

This was agreed with the landlord, we have paid referencing and contract fees to the estate agent and the contracts are ready to sign.

They are saying that we should pay the full deposit for the two rooms we are taking to the previous tenants, then we take on full responsibility of the deposit. This means we are responsible for any damage caused in the past year, which obviously seems a bit wrong.

Is there anything we can do? Is this the correct procedure?

Thanks

Pixie5740

No, it's not the correct procedure. Assuming the existing tenants have a joint tenancy then that tenancy should end and a new one started. This means the landlord carrying out a check-out/check-in inventory.

As you've rightly pointed out, doing it the way that has been proposed just now will make you liable for any damages that occurred before you moved in.

The current deposit should be returned to the lead tenant (minus any deductions if applicable) and a new deposit lodged in a scheme.

What's being proposed just now is just plain lazy.

leonard-on-his-bike

In the last email explaining this to us, I was told:

"As I said previously, in these cases you do take on the responsibility of the property and tenancy. If this is something you don’t wish to do, it needs to be made clear now, so we can stop the whole process."

We are supposed to be moving in in 6 days, and I don't want to jeopardise the chance at getting the flat as we all really want to be there, what do you think the best option is?

leonard-on-his-bike

Sorry, this was the previously explained situation:

". Permission given by the landlord to have the two current tenants removed from the contract and two new tenants added
2. New tenants will need to be re-referenced for their portion of rent
3. Once passed referencing, the new tenancy agreement will be drawn up along with a deed of surrender which will need to be signed by the exiting tenants
4. The new ingoing tenants will need to accept responsibility for property and pay the leaving tenant’s half of the deposit across to them directly
5. Once all the paperwork is signed the tenancy is formally transferred into the new combined tenants "

Pixie5740

The tenancy agreement bit sounds fine but the deposit part sounds like nonsense.

Why would you want to be responsible for damaged caused by someone else?

Also, if you give your deposit to the outgoing tenants then your deposit won't be protected.

G_M

Does the new tenancy agreement, which you are signing, clearly state that you have to pay the landlord (or his agent) the deposit?

If so, this is your dated evidence of paying the LL the deposit. Without this, do not do as advised, since (as well as the potential problem you've already outlined) whe your tenancy ends the LL could potentially (and accurately!) claim you never paid him a deposit. Your only option would then be to claim it back from the (long gone) tenant you paid it to.

As Pixie says, the LL should end the current tenancy, retrieve the deposit from whichever shcheme, return it to the outgoing (lead) tenant, and take and registr a new one from you.

However since the LL is being obtinate, and your tenancy is at risk, you could

* chck the tenancy agreement clealy states you paid the LL a deposit
* check the dates are accurate on th tenancy agrreemnt
* pay the outgoing tenant
* get a receipt. Ideally from the LL if he'll do so, but otherwise from the outgoing tenant, and ask him to add some wording to show this is a transfer of deposit owed by the L from him to you
* move in
* wait a week or so days (ie to give him time to be within the 30 day deadline
* if you receive nothing from the LL, write to him (yes a letter), quoting the deposit clause in the tenancy agreement, and politly ak which scheme it is registered in
* if he responds referring to the previous deposit (ie scheme-registered some years ago) respond in writing pointing out the date your tenancy started and therefore date deposit was paid for this tenancy, and ask for your deposit for this tenancy to be registered.

Finally, just to be clear:
a) you are all signing a single "joint and several" tnancy yes? Not seperate tenancies each?
b) If joint & several, bear in mind there is no seperate deposit paid/registered by each of you. There is just one deposit fo the tenancy. One of you could pay it all, or you could each pay an equal, or unequal, share. The law makes no distinction - it is a single deposi and should be registered as such for the tenancy (not a portion of it registered for you).

As for the inventory check - no problem. Any dispute at the end, the earlier inventory will be menaingless since the date does not match the tenancy start date, so the LL will have no inventory to compare against.

pmlindyloo

Shelter confirms the advice already given.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/private_renting_agreements/joint_tenancies

The landlord needs to end the previous tenancy and give the deposit back after deductions and then create a new tenancy and take a new deposit.

Shouldn't stop you taking on the tenancy. Just means more work for the LL/LA. Lazy behaviour but very common.

princeofpounds

This is silly. If there are new complete tenancy contracts then they are starting a new tenancy no matter what they say.


But they are trying to treat the deposits as if the existing tenancy had been assigned (transferred to new parties), rather than a new one created.


In one sense you probably don't need to worry too much. A new tenancy is being created, and without a new check-in there is no evidence on which to base deposit deduction for damage. If you just defend any deduction on the basis that the previous tenants did it, you'd almost certainly win.


Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if the deposit is not protected properly in your new names. That is something you can chase up after moving in, or even sue at some point if they aren't co-operative.


It's up to you whether you want to point this all out beforehand or just deal with it over time.

Guest101

Im guessing the deposits arent protected? And if this is the case, the LL is saying you pay your deposit to them, so as not to arouse suspicion and to avoid trying to deduct?

Might be wrong but seems very strange. The ADR in a protection scheme would eat the LL alive. The court would probably do worse.

It would be so simple too - when did tenancy start, when was deposit protected. where's the signed Check in / Inventory.