PayPal Chargebacks

livsdad

Hi, I'd love to know if anyone has had any similar experience of PayPal Chargebacks or any advice of how I could pursue a recourse of action here.

A summary of the problem:

I sold an ebay item for a small amount (Item number 171684670109) on 27/02/15 and payment was received on the same day via paypal. This included the option of second class postage, as stated in the listing. No further postage tracking was requested or paid for by the buyer.

The item was then posted on 04/03/15 with second class postage and a proof of postage receipt obtained, as is my normal practice unless otherwise requested.
Positive feedback was then received from this user stating: 'Lovely, received my item as described many thanks '[FONT=trebuchet ms,sans-serif] - clearly indicating safe delivery of the item.[/FONT]

No further communication was received from the user. No dispute was opened with ebay. I received no messages to indicate any problem whatsoever. Out of the blue, almost two months later I received a chargeback dispute notice from paypal. This was the first indication of any supposed problem.

This basically meant the user was disputing the transaction with their bank, saying that the payment had not been unauthorised.

I have provided PayPal with a Proof of Postage receipt, plus the ebay evidence of feedback to say the item was received. However, they have taken the money back from my account and charged me an additional £14 fee!

The buyer has the item they bought from me, has their money back and I am out of pocket. They have not responded to any emails and PayPay say my evidence is not sufficient. It seems outrageous!

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

If the following applies:

You must meet all of these requirements to be covered:

The item purchased must be a physical, tangible good.

The transaction must be marked by PayPal as eligible or partially eligible for PayPal seller protection on your Account “Transaction Details” page.

If it is marked eligible, protection for both Unauthorised Payments and Item Not Received will apply. If it is marked partially eligible, protection for only Item Not Received will apply.

Post the item to the shipping address on the [Paypal] “Transaction Details” page. If the item is delivered in person or if the Payment Recipient posts the item to a different address (for example, if the buyer asks that you send to another address on the basis that it is a “work address” or a “gift” address) then you will not be eligible for re-imbursement under the terms of the programme.

You may access the “Transactions Details” page by logging into your PayPal Account, selecting “History” and then selecting “Details” for the transaction.

Follow the postage requirements described below.

You must accept a single payment from one PayPal Account for the purchase.

Respond to PayPal’s requests for documentation and other information that is reasonably required by PayPal to investigate the matter in a timely manner.

Your primary residence, as listed in your PayPal Account, must be in the United Kingdom and/or Ireland (however, different levels of protection apply for each region, please see section 11.2 above).

Your eligibility is not otherwise suspended.

then proof of postage should be sufficient to protect you against a chargeback, Paypal sometimes need to be reminded of this so a call to them should see the decision reversed if you meet the terms.

soolin

Assuming you complied with the seller protection rules as outlined in the post above mine, then phone paypal and tell them. I assume though that everything was uploaded properly via the dispute console.

My latest one was earlier this year and my money was returned to me 6 days after uploading proof of posting , however I did also email them via the dispute console reminding them I had full seller protection. I also phoned them just to make sure they were listening!

livsdad

Hi, thanks for the replies - I believe I meet all those requirements! I spent 40 minutes on the phone with PayPal yesterday who were generally sympathetic but suggesting that it was the buyer's Bank who issue the chargeback and have control over whether to accept or refuse.

I have uploaded and also emailed evidence, however the latest reply I have received says:

The receipt you provided does not meet the requirements for 'proof of shipment' to be covered for Seller Protection. Proof of postage should be a copy of the actual shipping label or shipping receipt that shows the destination address and the shipping company's stamp to verify the shipment date.

My proof of postage is the receipt given to me by the Post Office, which contains the date printed on and has the address (house number & postcode) written on by the Postmaster.


The original item was sold for £8.50 plus £2.80 p&p making £11.30. This amount has now been deducted from my PayPal balance plus an additional £14 as a chargeback fee. But the buyer has never even disputed the transaction through ebay and left me feedback to say thanks for the item!


I am still astonished at this practise!

Nodding_Donkey

Claim from Royal Mail for non-delivery

shaun_from_Africa

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

Claim from Royal Mail for non-delivery

That may not work as RM occasionally ask the intended recipient to confirm the non delivery and if the buyer doesn't return the form, RM won't pay out.
Even if they get a refund, the OP will still be down by £14 for the chargeback fee.

livsdad, assuming that you posted to the address shown on the paypal invoice, you should contact Paypal again and point out that what you provided does satisfy their requirements for seller protection as it shows both the date of shipment and the buyer's postcode.

"Proof of Shipment" is online or physical documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:
•The date the item is shipped.
•The recipient's address, showing at least the city/state or postal code (or international equivalent).

livsdad

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

livsdad, assuming that you posted to the address shown on the paypal invoice, you should contact Paypal again and point out that what you provided does satisfy their requirements for seller protection as it shows both the date of shipment and the buyer's postcode.

Thanks, that makes good sense so I've just contacted PayPal again by email and done that.


I've also sent another email to the buyer.

soolin

livsdad wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the replies - I believe I meet all those requirements! I spent 40 minutes on the phone with PayPal yesterday who were generally sympathetic but suggesting that it was the buyer's Bank who issue the chargeback and have control over whether to accept or refuse.

I have uploaded and also emailed evidence, however the latest reply I have received says:

The receipt you provided does not meet the requirements for 'proof of shipment' to be covered for Seller Protection. Proof of postage should be a copy of the actual shipping label or shipping receipt that shows the destination address and the shipping company's stamp to verify the shipment date.

My proof of postage is the receipt given to me by the Post Office, which contains the date printed on and has the address (house number & postcode) written on by the Postmaster.


The original item was sold for £8.50 plus £2.80 p&p making £11.30. This amount has now been deducted from my PayPal balance plus an additional £14 as a chargeback fee. But the buyer has never even disputed the transaction through ebay and left me feedback to say thanks for the item!


I am still astonished at this practise!

Thank you for clarifying, that makes it clearer.

Your POP complies with paypal requirements so phone paypal and keep phoning them until they accept it. You must be firm Wight hem and point out that at the bottom of that receipt it says something like ' please retain this for your records as this is your proof of postage'.

The only time this could go wrong is if post office clerk has written the address merely on the basic receipt- but if it shows the OPO statement you must keep on at paypal.

I don't even have that for mine. I have a bulk listing form that I print off from RM and just put up to 30 names and addresses on and which the mail centre stamp when I take my sack of parcels in.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

Claim from Royal Mail for non-delivery

So the OP should make a false claim with Royal Mail because?

George_Michael

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

Claim from Royal Mail for non-delivery

Which would be a fraudulent claim as it appears that the chargeback is for an unauthorised payment and not for non delivery.

livsdad

soolin wrote: »

Thank you for clarifying, that makes it clearer.

Your POP complies with paypal requirements so phone paypal and keep phoning them until they accept it. You must be firm Wight hem and point out that at the bottom of that receipt it says something like ' please retain this for your records as this is your proof of postage'.

Once again, thanks all for the helpful replies.


I was a little resigned to not getting anywhere following initial interactions with paypal but encouraged to pursue the matter, especially as I felt so aggrieved at the unfairness.


Have now had final message response from paypal who have relented and refunded my account with both the payment in question and the chargeback!


A successful happy ending and some justice! Never did hear back from the 'buyer'.