Obstruction in alleyway, access rights

blake7even

Right now more interested in the shed and bush issue, but to restate.

In the owners lease.

must allow "foot traffic right of way"

The law.

in his judgment in the Court of Appeal in Selby Taylor LJ noted that when the case was heard by the Magistrates: "… there was no evidence before them at that stage as to how that travel had been accomplished, namely, whether the appellant had been riding the motorcycle or wheeling it"
It is therefore apparent that there is a clear difference between riding a motorcycle and wheeling it. Henry J had commented earlier in his judgment that what applies to a motorcycle must also apply to a bicycle.

Pushing a cycle of any nature is considered by law foot traffic.

lincroft1710

Bear in mind that the quoted case refers to use on a public highway, where it seems to have been established that when pushing a cycle/motorcycle, pedestrian not motoring/cycling laws apply.

It will depend on what the actual r-o-w allows. If it definitively says no wheeled traffic or pedestrian access only, then you cannot use it for your scooter.

Conrad

I'm not sure if I were a flat owner / freeholder I would have the slightest interest in dealing with the queries of some random potential buyer. What if you pull out, what if another buyer is found, all this seems very premature.


The only way this would possibly work is for you to make an offer conditional on certain resolutions being found but in this market the seller may well tell you to poke it, why would they want this hassle when they might well find a laid back buyer that doesn't care about these issues?


Estate Agents are very wary of 'time vampire' type buyers that generate heat and hassles. There's of ten no desire or need to interface with such people as buyers are 10 a penny. I'm not wishing to offend you, just trying to get you to see the bigger picture.


If I was the owner I'd tell the agents to sell it to someone else - there are always laid back types around that don't get worried by such things.

blake7even

Just to put this to bed. This is what his lease actually says:

Together also with a right of way (in common with the Company and all
other persons who have now or may hereafter have the like right) but on
foot only over and along the passage or footpath shown on the said plan
and thereon coloured brown

According to Law pushing anything from a car! (R. v. MacDonagh (1974).) to a wheel barrow is Foot Traffic. Riding a scooter / bicycle is right not.

There is clear judicial authority for the proposition that anyone pushing a bicycle is a "foot-passenger" (Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441) and is not "riding" it (Selby). In his judgment in the Court of Appeal in Crank v Brooks, Waller LJ stated:
"In my judgment a person who is walking across a pedestrian crossing pushing a bicycle, having started on the pavement on one side on her feet and not on the bicycle, and going across pushing the bicycle with both feet on the ground so to speak is clearly a 'foot passenger'. If for example she had been using it as a scooter by having one foot on the pedal and pushing herself along, she would not have been a 'foot passenger'. But the fact that she had the bicycle in her hand and was walking does not create any difference from a case where she is walking without a bicycle in her hand. I regard it as unarguable the finding that she was not a foot passenzer "


Here is the advice from boundry problems DOT co DOT uk.

A private right of way on foot permits you to:

• pass and repass on foot between the dominant tenement and the public highway;
• with or without a load that one person might be expected to be capable of carrying;
• or pushing a small barrow or trolley or perambulator, or wheeling (not riding) a bicycle, provided that the wheeled device is not too wide to be accommodated by the footpath and by any gates along the path.

So what about the shed??

Conrad

What does the Estate Agent say?
Buyers are 10 a penny, many will buy without even setting foot in the country.

blake7even

Conrad,

I'm with you. That is why I wanted to see what my recourse is. So far it looks like most people would walk away. Cool, but that doesn't help me as I'm not in the mood to walk away.

What would be a sensible course of action. Speaking to the freeholder/Leaseholder or estate agent isn't really a plan. These people are in breach of their lease. Who enforces the lease? If it's a solicitor what type?

Thanks all.

princeofpounds

I'm not enough of a lawyer to give you advice, but I suspect that you are allowed to wheel a motorcycle on foot, in the same way you should be allowed a wheelbarrow or a wheelie bin. The whole point of these set-ups is to allow the transportation of bulky items - mostly refuse - without having to go through the house itself.


You might want to try gardenlaw forums rights of way board.


Having said that, I would really, really, urge you not to go for this property. You will end up with an immediate neighbourly dispute. You will probably win, but it will cost you some money and a lot of time more importantly. You also open yourself up to retaliation. Then when you want to sell you might have to declare the dispute to any buyers.


It would be so much easier not to get involved in the first place.

Cool, but that doesn't help me as I'm not in the mood to walk away.

Then you are being foolish. There are thousands of houses out there.

Conrad

blake7even wrote: »

Conrad,

I'm with you. That is why I wanted to see what my recourse is. So far it looks like most people would walk away. Cool, but that doesn't help me as I'm not in the mood to walk away.

What would be a sensible course of action. Speaking to the freeholder/Leaseholder or estate agent isn't really a plan. These people are in breach of their lease. Who enforces the lease? If it's a solicitor what type?

Thanks all.

The point is blake it's nothing to do with you, because currently you are a random passing interest, nothing more.


So you must do this via the Estate Agent and your Solicitor, there is no other way.
Also your mortgage company (if applicable) will not allow any lending to take place if leases are in breach, so it would have to be resolved anyway, but even then the owner could tell you to jog-on and they could sell it to a cash buyer / at auction etc.

You can't just barge in on private property and get 'someone' to take action.


The leaseholder / management company (it might even be share of freehold where each property owner runs the freehold) will not deal with queries from you unless you are a serious buyer with Solicitors instructed.


EDIT > If you do end up in dispute with neighbours this makes your property less saleable later as any disputes have to be disclosed, so not a great way to start off your property journey.
There's enough hatred and stress in the world without going looking for it!

blake7even

Another quick nod to the Scooter question, mixed with my frustration that there is a body that hands out leases but not one that enforces them.

Hypothetical; Say I rode up and down the alley on my fully legal Vespa with helmet on and less than 30 MPH (nearest highway)

Who's to stop me?

lincroft1710

The freeholder enforces the lease.