NHS pension ill health/ redeployment etc

[Deleted User]

Anyone know anything about this?

Wife has been off ill for a long time. Sick pay is about to run out totally.

Shes not going to be able to go back to her own role unfortunately (Shes a nurse). But shes hoping to get redeployed to something else within the Trust.

Apparently, theres a 3 month period during after which you get termianted possibly.

But big problem is that pay is running out totally. Looked at Pension and there is facility to get pension due to ill health? How does this work?

Only problem is if you do this, then it would mean you'd have to be terminated first? SO no chance of redeployment then. :-(

But £73 a week ESA is not enough to pay the bills :-(

polgara

Ill health retirement (IHR) may be a possibility - there are two tiers:

One when you cannot do your substantive job and
One when you cannot do any job

You would need occupational health (OH) to support any application for IHR and if you say that she has been recommended for redeployment then she should be able to do some work.

She can ask about IHR - amazed that HR haven't broached this with her already to be honest but it maybe that OH have already discounted this. I have known of one case that OH did not support IHR application but the individual's GP did and that was successful.

Just to note that it is harder than ever to get IHR as the medical assessors (was ATOS) are very thorough and require quite a lot of medical evidence to support applications.

Has your wife been applying for anything on the redeployment register - the clock is ticking as those 12 weeks go by very quickly.

[Deleted User]

polgara wrote: »

Ill health retirement (IHR) may be a possibility - there are two tiers:

One when you cannot do your substantive job and
One when you cannot do any job

You would need occupational health (OH) to support any application for IHR and if you say that she has been recommended for redeployment then she should be able to do some work.

She can ask about IHR - amazed that HR haven't broached this with her already to be honest but it maybe that OH have already discounted this. I have known of one case that OH did not support IHR application but the individual's GP did and that was successful.

Just to note that it is harder than ever to get IHR as the medical assessors (was ATOS) are very thorough and require quite a lot of medical evidence to support applications.

Has your wife been applying for anything on the redeployment register - the clock is ticking as those 12 weeks go by very quickly.

Shes not officially on the redeployment register yet. Its awaiting OH - yes its slow.

Asked HR about IHR and they didnt know anything about it. Said had to speak to pensions people!

At the moment, shes not well enough to do her normal job hence the redeployment to get something more suitable. But I see what you mean about not getting IHR when you're still up for redeployment.

Didnt know you had to get assessment also. Not easy then :-(

So after 12 weeks its out the door then?

polgara

From what you are saying your wife is currently not well enough to do her substantive job - is this likely to be the case in the long term or with treatment will it improve?

Technically the HR people are correct as it is the Pensions department that deal with any IHR but they should be discussing it as an option - but there again it all depends on the long term prognosis and OH advice.

A capability hearing can be held following a period on the redeployment register OR if the absence cannot be sustained by the service. OH may say that redeployment is not an option depending on her condition.

Basically there are the following options:
Return to work
Return to work with adjustments
Redeployment
Career break to give her the time to recover
Ill health retirement
Resignation
Dismissal

[Deleted User]

polgara wrote: »

From what you are saying your wife is currently not well enough to do her substantive job - is this likely to be the case in the long term or with treatment will it improve?

Technically the HR people are correct as it is the Pensions department that deal with any IHR but they should be discussing it as an option - but there again it all depends on the long term prognosis and OH advice.

A capability hearing can be held following a period on the redeployment register OR if the absence cannot be sustained by the service. OH may say that redeployment is not an option depending on her condition.

Basically there are the following options:
Return to work
Return to work with adjustments
Redeployment
Career break to give her the time to recover
Ill health retirement
Resignation
Dismissal

Thanks. Shes actually a nurse in a specialist role. So, at the moment, she can't do her current role. Manager has also said there can be no appropriate adjustments.

But there are other nursing jobs she could do (i.e. clinic type). OH agree with this assessment at the moment.

Long term - who can tell. She has fibromyalgia which is a pretty chronic condition so probably not.

Thing is though. Pay left = 3 weeks. Not officially on the register yet. So I guess we can't even consider ILH until 12 weeks on the register? Probably should have got this started 12 weeks before end of pay then (although she has been looking for months).

Thing is she wants to get something else. Being on redeployment I understand means she has more chance of getting an interview if something comes up - basically HR ask them to interview her. If she takes ILH, then basically it means shes gone and has less chance to get back in.

But of course, its a case of go without money for a bit or get in there asap to get 'some' pension money coming in at least.

polgara

You can consider IHR at any point but without OH advice it will be very difficult for her to succeed - she makes the application not her Trust, however it is her essentially accepting that she will be retiring (dependent on which level she is accepted for IHR may affect her ability to come back to work at a later date). Applications for IHR take a while to be processed so it wouldn't be within 3 weeks anyway.

She really needs to speak to her Pensions department for some guidance.

In my experience of staff with fibromyalgia it is very difficult to find appropriate redeployment particularly if she's already been off for a year, even sedentary nursing research roles tend to be problematic.

[Deleted User]

polgara wrote: »

You can consider IHR at any point but without OH advice it will be very difficult for her to succeed - she makes the application not her Trust, however it is her essentially accepting that she will be retiring (dependent on which level she is accepted for IHR may affect her ability to come back to work at a later date). Applications for IHR take a while to be processed so it wouldn't be within 3 weeks anyway.

She really needs to speak to her Pensions department for some guidance.

In my experience of staff with fibromyalgia it is very difficult to find appropriate redeployment particularly if she's already been off for a year, even sedentary nursing research roles tend to be problematic.

Thanks for the info. If you don't mind me asking, do you work for NHS in some capacity?

Her current role is Theatre Recovery which is particularly hectic. She hoping to get some sort of clinic/practice nurse sort of thing on much reduced hours.

I guess the problem with applying for IHR is that, like you say, it sort of means you've decided to retire. Might as well if the redeployment doesnt work and the trust decides to terminate though I guess? But its the delay on no money is going to be the problem :-(

One slightly unrelated thing. OK, leave accrues even when you're sick so she'd get paid for sick accrued from april 2015. But what about from when you go to zero pay - do you still get paid leave accruing or not (because your on zero pay)?

polgara

Yes I do, in HR.

All annual leave accrues, which means you can take annual leave whilst off sick and get paid at full rate.

Is she looking/applying for appropriate jobs now? Don't wait for redeployment as you may be shocked if they take it straight to a capability hearing! As I said fibromyalgia may limit what:

a jobs she will be able to do
b ability to pass an OH assessment

[Deleted User]

polgara wrote: »

Yes I do, in HR.

All annual leave accrues, which means you can take annual leave whilst off sick and get paid at full rate.

Is she looking/applying for appropriate jobs now? Don't wait for redeployment as you may be shocked if they take it straight to a capability hearing! As I said fibromyalgia may limit what:

a jobs she will be able to do
b ability to pass an OH assessment

Thanks. Yes up until the end of leave year in march she did accrue leave and took it and was paid (or at least should have been - there is some outstanding but thats another story!)

Yes shes been looking for a few months now and has been to see OH etc.

Pay ends now end of may. (its been a year). So shes got leave for april and may accrued.

What I meant was since she'll be on zero pay I take it after may it no longer accrues?

polgara

Well it does carry on accruing whilst on zero pay which is one reason that many employers move to capability process.

Also many organisations will only allow you to carry over annual leave in line with statutory entitlement not contractual so its best to take annual leave sooner rather than later.

Bethie71

Hi there, I just wanted to say that I am going through this process at the moment....in fact I should receive my decision on my ill health retirement in the next day or two!
I worked for the NHS (paramedic) and this was my experience.
Aug 2013 went on long term sick with nerve entrapment in arm (can't grip etc) had HR reviews and Occy health assessments over the next 12 months, had my final review in Oct 2014 where it was decided that I wasn't fit for duties so a capability hearing was booked for Dec 2014. Nov 2014 asked HR for the pension application form, which they filled in their part (this was NOT seen as me resigning) Dec 2014 had a functional capacity assessment 1 week prior to my capability hearing where it was decided that I wasn't fit for my duties, Occy health had said I was only capable of doing 30% of the tasks needed to be a paramedic....so my employment was terminated. I was given 12 weeks full pay plus 5 weeks accrued annual leave at full pay. It was made clear I was in the process of applying for pension but this didn't affect the outcome. I had been looking for redeployment prior to this but nothing came up....hope this helps. Good luck,
B