Can this be right?

merlin68

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/ssa-migrants-benefits-factsheet.pdf
New rules explained.

Newly_retired

Thanks all and merlin68 for that document which is not one I have seen before.
In addition to limiting new EEA claimants to 3m JSA, the DWP is now catching up on older claims and doing the "genuine prospect of work" interview which may lead to closing their JSA claim.
My original case is a woman who has no ties with her previous EEA country, and has not been allowed to work here by her controlling husband whilst her children are young.
She is looking into whether she has a permanent right to reside, but it is not clear cut.
She has no worker or retained worker status.
She may have a right as the primary carer of British school age children.
Her ex will pay some maintenance but he is very controlling and could easily turn and claim he is their primary carer and she could lose everything she has known for the past 12 years.
I have suggested Women's Aid to her as they will have specific info to help her.
Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

MissMoneypenny

Newly_retired wrote: »

In addition to limiting new EEA claimants to 3m JSA, the DWP is now catching up on older claims and doing the "genuine prospect of work" interview which may lead to closing their JSA claim.

EEA Background
We are only allowed to visit another EEA country for 3 months. If we want to stay longer than that then we have to be a Qualified Person to have a Right to Reside in that country by being a Qualified Person.

There are thousands of EEAs who live in the UK with all their dependants but who don't have a right to reside in the UK. This is a massive burden to UK schools, housing, welfare (because the UK never checked before and just gave benefits) and NHS (which they are not allowed to use for free but the UK never checked until they started the checks in April 2015). This is now being sorted but is taking ages because of the sheer numbers. So yes, those EEAs who have been claiming UK benefits for years, will be getting these letters in due course.

The EEA embassies in the UK know about these changes and will help theiir citizens return home to the their own EEA country as they have a duty to help any citizens. Judging by the posts on other forums, many have now had all their UK benefits stopped because another EEA country does not have a duty to keep them.

Biometric Resident Permits will be needed by all immigrants in the UK soon and that includes EEA citizens. In fact most EEA countries are now insisting on these BRPs for immigrants to tackle immigation abuse. The UK will also use these BRPs to tackle NHS abuse and for EEA citizens they can now use the HMRC Real Time System to check if the EEA citizen has worked enough hours to be allowed free NHS for themselves and their family.

Newly_retired wrote: »

She is looking into whether she has a permanent right to reside, but it is not clear cut.

All she can do is apply to UKVI and see if she has earned PR as a Self Sufficient Qualified Person, subect to her healthcare proof and the date that started as I mentioned in post 9. At least then she will know her about her legal status in the UK.

If UKVI say she has got PR then she can claim benefits. If she hasn't then her right to remain in the UK is dependant on her working so that she earns enough to pay NICs and that then makes her a worker Qualified Person. Which will them mean she can claim UK benefits and use the NHS for free. She must keep doing this for to keep her workers qualified person status in the UK to retain her right to reside in the UK, claim benefits and use the NHS for free. After 5 years as a qualified person in the UK, she can apply for PR

Newly_retired wrote: »

She has no worker or retained worker status.

But she might have PR as a Self Sufficient qualified person. She really needs to see what UKVI say about her PR application.

Newly_retired wrote: »

She may have a right as the primary carer of British school age children.

That's this. She may want to read through and see if that is what she wants or whether she would be better off working part time to be a worker qualified person
https://www.gov.uk/derivative-right-residence/eligibility

Newly_retired wrote: »

I have suggested Women's Aid to her as they will have specific info to help her.

I'm going to type it again - I suggest she applies for PR asap as she might get a pleasant surprise and find she already has this. That PR will give her access to all the UK benefits a UK citizen can have.

Oh and if she finds she has PR then she can apply for UK citizenship, subject to passing the English test and Life in the UK test.

Then get over to the CSA board to find out about sorting out that controlling husband and his payments

BigAunty

One other thing the OP can do is to encourage her friend to notify her local MP of her problems. MPs are there to work for their constituents.

Realistically, there is little the MP can do directly, other than to perhaps help support her PR application if it stalls or is rejected, for example.

However, at least she gets to tell him how govt policies have impacted her directly, ones that do not protect EEA migrants who experience domestic abuse in the same way that non-EEA migrants enjoy.

The policies that have been recently implemented do have good principles at their heart but don't cover all scenarios.

They are designed to protect the public purse from EEA economic migrants who have upsticks from the poorest parts of Europe who will be long-term takers from the taxpayers and due to their limited English language, employment skills and qualifications, have no realistic prospect of employment here.

However, these rules have a 'computer says no' approach so rare issues like the OPs friend get caught up in them. Having said that, whenever there is an exceptional loophole, this can get massively exploited.

wiltsguy_2

BigAunty wrote: »

whenever there is an exceptional loophole, this can get massively exploited.

i thought this was why the rules had changed, as most of Europe was moving here and exploiting our loopholes....so i would imagine they are water tight

BigAunty

wiltsguy wrote: »

i thought this was why the rules had changed, as most of Europe was moving here and exploiting our loopholes....so i would imagine they are water tight

When entire communities of the poorest citizens in Europe came here and claimed HB, child tax credits, child benefit, working tax credits and council discount from the start with free access to the NHS, it wasn't a loophole but their legitimate right for all that qualified just through being EU citizens.

I was totally shocked when I saw a table published by a newspaper that showed how other EU countries dealt with EU migrants in their welfare system. I had no idea then that the UK was one of the few countries that required absolutely no contributions or reciprocity whatsoever and that any EU citizen could claim benefits from the moment they moved here.

I had no idea that many countries had lengthy periods (sometimes 1 or 2 years) of the claimant paying into the tax system first before they qualified for unemployment benefit, that some require the migrant to pay towards healthcare services, that some do not have equivalent benefits such as tax credits to top up their income (what you get is only what you earn) and that others do not even have any form of housing benefit whatsoever, that some require the self-employed to pay over £100 per month towards social security payments whether or not the business is profitable, that some countries do not permit overseas people to apply for social housing, etc.

MissMoneypenny

BigAunty wrote: »

However, at least she gets to tell him how govt policies have impacted her directly, ones that do not protect EEA migrants who experience domestic abuse in the same way that non-EEA migrants enjoy.

That is done to protect people from honour killings in 3rd world countries. It is not there because you don't want to return to your own safe first world country as you would rather live in the UK.

If the EU didn't write this into EU law then they obviously didn't think the EU has any third world countries. Perhaps the EU felt that if the EU citizens abuser is living in their own EU country, then why would someone want to stay in that same country as their abuser when their own EU country is safe? The same with all the other safe EEA countries they could move to to avoid their abuser?

MissMoneypenny

BigAunty wrote: »

However, these rules have a 'computer says no' approach so rare issues like the OPs friend get caught up in them. Having said that, whenever there is an exceptional loophole, this can get massively exploited.

The rules have always been that you can't just up sticks and live in another EEA country. We can visit for 3 months and then we only have a right to reside there if we are a Qualified Person.

The massive lookphole that has been exploited is that the last goverment never used to check if someone had a right to reside in the UK, use the schools, were allowed benefits, housing, free NHS. Now the UK is.
i.e those in the UK as a Self Sufficient qualified person was never allowed free healthcare or welfare from the UK nor for any of their family under EU laws becasue they would be "an undue burden on that EEA country" but the UK never checked when they handed out PR to them. Then the UK insisted they proved they had health insurance and many on forums said they bought this but never had to use it as they could still get free NHS as the UK couldn't check who could use the NHS for free. Now they can. The same with students, they were never allowed to be "an undue burden to another EEA country" and have free NHS or welfare as then they too wouldn't be a qualified person.

Many didn't go for PR in the UK after 5 years because they knew they didn't have a right to reside in the UK. Others took a chance and applied. That's why I am telling the OPs friend to take a chance as they were slack with self sufficients when she moved to the UK and she might just get it. She wouldn't get it if she had arrived during the last five years because she doesn't have a right to reside in the UK as she isn't a Qualified Person.