London is a joke (moan)

lisyloo

Door to door commute is hard to compare as it really depends on individual circumstances.

I totally agree.
However there are extremely few individuals who live right by the the train station at both ends, so there is normally something to add on.
Some of us also have workings partners and can't pick a perfect location for both commutes so we have to compromise further.

Cornucopia

lisyloo wrote: »

Some of us also have workings partners and can't pick a perfect location for both commutes so we have to compromise further.

This is a good point, and is another thing putting pressure on the London market - 2x £400 a month for a long-distance commute, and 2 people spending 2-3 hours per day on commuting.

Jhoney_2

Digsby wrote: »

Asking prices are way out of whack with reality almost everywhere, but I don't think it's a situation that is going to last very long.

Transaction volumes are extremely low at the moment, agents need to make a living and if volumes continue on the current trend, then estate agents are going to be putting a lot of pressure on sellers to start asking for realistic prices. Even now, I think many sellers would accept offers of up to 20% off the asking price, in London at least.

The March LR HPI report is out in 2 days, the expected monthly % change from February for England and Wales is -0.8% - I expect London to be down by over 1%, maybe even 2%.

Whoever said only the "plague" will bring London prices down, you haven't noticed they've been on a downwards trend since August, I presume?

To the OP -

Do yourself a favour - install google chrome, go to the chrome web store, search for "appraised", install that, then visit the above 2 properties in Chatham and Gillingham (sorry can't repost them - new member) and click on the little house icon in the address bar...

The popup window is telling me that the 1st one sold in 2001 for £55k (!), and then again in 2007 for £135k - but that prices in Medway only increased by 86% between 2001 and 2007 - £105k would have been in line with local price inflation, so the seller overpaid by £30k, unless there were some serious improvements made (and the photos say no), or some other local factor inflated the price (new Waitrose?!).

Personally I wouldn't offer more than £135k for that, but since it's what the seller paid, and "house prices only ever go up", I can't imagine them accepting, so I'd steer clear.

That second one, bought for £49,500 in 2001. Prices in Medway have increased by 96% since 2001, so almost doubled, which would put the current value at £95k - but they're asking for £130k! Not surprising it's been on the market for 2 months.

They'd be doing well if they sold it for £105k, I'd come in at £95 and maybe go up to £105k, if it was worth it to me.

Using the right tools, I think you can manage to find somewhere decent, at a decent price, even in London, if you play it clever, and steer clear of those who have overpaid in the past and need an overinflated price to recoup their money.

Note that this is the posters own creation as posted here on a previous thread. Just stating for the record as it may have been an omission.

Cornucopia

Digsby wrote: »

Asking prices are way out of whack with reality almost everywhere...

That sounds like the bravado of a house price crash follower. What is reality in this context? It's all very well suggesting a figure for the value of a property, but it's not really that helpful in the context of a general discussion like this.

You also seem to have missed a critical point in my post. Rightmove is showing only 1 (one) house in each of Chatham and Gillingham town centres in that price range. There are more, but they are much more expensive.

I'm sure there's room for negotiation, but out in the sticks, 2 months on the market is not particularly long, especially with the lack of kerb-appeal that those two properties necessarily have.

Dave_Z

I started off in Ealing Broadway W5 and gradually worked my way westward in the search for more affordable housing. Got as far as Langley in Berkshire which was a very nice little area even though it was close to Slough, but even there a decent 2 bed flat was £200k and we were paying £850/month in rent. We decided being close to London wasn't the be all and end all so we looked for and found new jobs and moved to Northants, where our rent nearly halved. Now we've just exchanged on a new 3 bed semi in Market Harborough, Leics for just under £200k. St Pancras is a 55 minute non-stop train journey so we can still easily and quickly get into the city to meet friends/days out. We probably go to central London more often now than when were 70-80 miles closer.

goodwithsaving

It isn't just London. I come from the South West where property is "cheap" compared to London but there aren't the jobs and/or the salaries to pay for them. Hence I had to come up to London. I couldn't afford to buy in London so bought miles out and spend a lot of time commuting.

Sacrifices.

(and where I have bought in the SE isn't far off property prices where I come from in the SW, as those have shot up recently too, making it even worse for those at home).

It isn't just a London problem.

Digsby

Cornucopia wrote: »

That sounds like the bravado of a house price crash follower. What is reality in this context? It's all very well suggesting a figure for the value of a property, but it's not really that helpful in the context of a general discussion like this.

You also seem to have missed a critical point in my post. Rightmove is showing only 1 (one) house in each of Chatham and Gillingham town centres in that price range. There are more, but they are much more expensive.

I'm sure there's room for negotiation, but out in the sticks, 2 months on the market is not particularly long, especially with the lack of kerb-appeal that those two properties necessarily have.

Reality, in this context, is how much somebody is able to pay (specifically, borrow) for a house, versus how much somebody else want's to charge them, which is the topic of the discussion.

The problem, as far as I can see, is that a lot of houses were bought pre 2007 when mortgages were easy to get, at high income multiples, which naturally pushed prices up.

They are now for sale, but those who would buy now can no longer borrow as much money as before, and so find themselves either stuck in their current house (which they can't sell at anything but a loss), or stuck renting, or having to adjust their expectations on either quality, location or both.

Mortgage conditions are not relaxing from here on in, the restrictions on income multiples and the likes are there to prevent borrowers from over-stretching themselves, so we don't end up back where we were in 2009/2010.

That does not mean though that your average priced house will forever be beyond the reach of your average earner. Sellers need to, and will, also adjust their expectations on achievable prices.

I didn't mean to come across as critical of your post, I'm sorry if you felt that way. I used the properties you posted because I had looked at them, and saw an example of a seller who might be stuck because they bought under lax credit conditions in 2007 and are selling under tighter credit conditions, and may not be able to accept a lower price, plus an example of a seller who bought a long time ago, so is likely to be able to accept a much lower offer.

Yes, I am the creator of the software I mention. I created it for my own personal use, I use it all the time, find it to be of tremendous value, and have made it available for anyone to use, free of charge, in the hope they find it as useful as I do, and out of sympathy for others like myself trying to find value in a marketplace full of outrageous greed.

I didn't feel the need to mention that.

thenewbee

OP I decided to relocate once I got to the point I wanted to buy a house. I now reside in my 183k 250 year old stone cottage in an idyllic village in Yorkshire 20 mins from Leeds City Centre & 25 mins from York with 3 bedrooms & plenty of room to add value. I've got good local amenities including doctors, post office & shop and it's a 7 minute drive to the local market town which has a supermarket & is stacked with bars and restaurants.

It's a different way of living than when I lived in SE5 in London - but I actually prefer it. There's a viable future for me here with properties I can afford to upgrade to when I can afford it, & in the meantime my house has gone up 3% in the year since I bought it. That's a year spent paying off my mortgage, not lining my London landlords pockets.

It's a choice you make - I made the right choice for me. If you decide to stay then suck it up.

AdrianC

lisyloo wrote: »

It's not that easy for everyone.

No, it isn't.

But that doesn't mean it's not that easy for anybody. I was having a similar discussion with a mate earlier - with his missus, they have five kids by previous partners living with them. Both ex-partners are still involved with the kids and live nearby. So, for them, relocating means MASSIVE upheaval, and quite probably the family being split up if one of the exes gets uppity (far from unlikely, on previous form).

But "vital stages at school" are temporary. Elderly parents can relocate, too - and many older people do so voluntarily to make their lives easier and, especially in and around London, many people relocated to there anyway so their parents are nowhere near. And what if one person's job is relocated or changes?

There are many, many, MANY ways to skin a cat, and once people stop thinking up excuses why they can't do something, they usually find they can and it was more a case of they didn't want to.

Jhoney_2

Digsby wrote: »

Reality, in this context, is how much somebody is able to pay (specifically, borrow) for a house, versus how much somebody else want's to charge them, which is the topic of the discussion.

The problem, as far as I can see, is that a lot of houses were bought pre 2007 when mortgages were easy to get, at high income multiples, which naturally pushed prices up.

They are now for sale, but those who would buy now can no longer borrow as much money as before, and so find themselves either stuck in their current house (which they can't sell at anything but a loss), or stuck renting, or having to adjust their expectations on either quality, location or both.

Mortgage conditions are not relaxing from here on in, the restrictions on income multiples and the likes are there to prevent borrowers from over-stretching themselves, so we don't end up back where we were in 2009/2010.

That does not mean though that your average priced house will forever be beyond the reach of your average earner. Sellers need to, and will, also adjust their expectations on achievable prices.

I didn't mean to come across as critical of your post, I'm sorry if you felt that way. I used the properties you posted because I had looked at them, and saw an example of a seller who might be stuck because they bought under lax credit conditions in 2007 and are selling under tighter credit conditions, and may not be able to accept a lower price, plus an example of a seller who bought a long time ago, so is likely to be able to accept a much lower offer.

Yes, I am the creator of the software I mention. I created it for my own personal use, I use it all the time, find it to be of tremendous value, and have made it available for anyone to use, free of charge, in the hope they find it as useful as I do, and out of sympathy for others like myself trying to find value in a marketplace full of outrageous greed.

I didn't feel the need to mention that.

Always a good idea to know the reason and motivations behind these things to glean context. You telling people to download well known products etc may sound like a scam, self promotion or whatever. No need to take offence - your good intentions are now known in its entirety.