Company Car Driver process clarification

Airwalker1979

Dear all,

I'm sure many of you will jump on to tell me to read the newbie thread and digest the recent claims. I'd like to clarify that I have done so, but it leaves me unsure on how I am meant to proceed or what specifics I should action based on certain ambiguity in the threads and advice posted already.

Background:
Parked at Chiltern Railway Carpark in Beaconsfield 20/04/2015. Busy day, forgot to use Ring Go immediately, paid lunchtime when I remembered, but by then it was too late and inevitable PCN was duly found attached upon return that evening. The car is a Company Car. I understand that mitigating circumstances are irrelevant etc.

Immediately jumped on the forum and read as much as I could. I am seeking clarification that the steps below are correct, and your advice on what to do in some specific instances:

1. I have contacted my fleet administrator and advised them a PCN was issued. If they receive any correspondence, they will forward it directly to me. No risk of admin fees, and no risk they'll reply to advise I was the driver.

2. Having done [1] above, do I now wait for the NTK to be forwarded, or follow the Company Car Driver advice and write directly to MET immediately? This wasn't clear in any examples or guidance I could find.

3. When I use the template to write the first appeal, the advice concerning whether to state identity as Driver or Keeper was especially confusing. If I read correctly in some of the recent case threads, the advice as a Company Car Driver is not to admit you are the driver, but it conflicts other advice at the header of the template, which states:

If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car) then of course remove the wording about 'not naming the driver' and anything about the POFA 2012 which only protects keepers.

i.e. if you are a Company Car Driver, remove any content about POFA and give your name as the driver.

So what do I do? Admit I was driver or not?

If the answer is simply to carry on and use the template as is, that's fine - I just need the clarification.

Thanks in advance,

Yours truly.

Umkomaas

You need to maintain your position as 'keeper' of the vehicle, which is different to Registered Keeper (RK), in the context of POFA 2012, and especially as this is a Railway Station where byelaws probably apply, but where, if they are pursuing anyone under the byelaws, it is only the driver who can be pursued; there is no keeper liability.

So you will need to examine the PCN you currently hold to see if there's any indication of how they are pursuing this, but usually there is a 'fudge' with both the word 'Penalty' (byelaws) and POFA 2012 being quoted.

If there is no response to the windscreen ticket (Notice to Driver -NtD), the RK will receive a NtK between 29 and 56 days after the parking event.

Much will depend on whether your company is the RK or, if they are using a supplier like Arval, is the supplying company the RK - so you probably need to ask a few questions of your fleet administrator.

Assuming it is your company and they receive the NtK, it is they who are then being pursued. They can deal with this a number of ways:

1. Ignore - not advised because they'll be getting sh/t for months from MET and their debt collectors, plus an alleged debt can be pursued for 6 years before becoming statute-barred.
2. Name the driver, but the appeals process has technically ended for the driver as they had their opportunity for 28 days after the issue of the NtD (now whether MET are smart enough to understand that is not clear). They may write to the driver allowing an initial appeal, reject it and issue a POPLA code. But in the context of Railway byelaws, identifying the driver is the last option, not first!
3. Your company could appeal via the NEWBIES sticky template, then on to POPLA (but I expect they don't want any hassle on this). However, you could do all the work on it on their behalf and see it through to POPLA and win. Much depends on your relationship with your company and their attitude towards all this.
4. Your company (if they are the RK) could respond to the NtK by stating that you are the keeper of the car (the one with day-to-day responsibility for the car) and hope MET then issue you with a further NtK.

There is no established pattern in any of this to give you a clear path to guarantee you 'safe passage'. If there is an Arval type supplier and they are the RK there's more complications to the above options, as there is a further tier of hierarchy.

You really need to find out exactly under what protocol they are pursuing this, so very close examination of the NtD at this stage is important.

If it is unequivocally a byelaws Penalty Charge Notice, then this is a criminal not civil case and needs very careful handling, but my instinct is it will be a fudge job, with reference to byelaws to intimidate, but in reality it will be a POFA 2012 case.

HTH

Airwalker1979

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. I have obtained further documents to seek clarification, and it may change the circumstances:

1. The relevant part of the PCN states

Code: -01 - The vehicle did not clearly display a valid parking ticket / voucher / permit. As a result, and in accordance with the displayed terms and conditions, we have issued a parking charge notice for £100.00 which must be paid within 28 days. If the parking charge is paid within 14 days (including the date of this notice) the parking charge notice will be reduced to £60.00.

etc.

2. My circumstances regarding company may not be considered normal. Since my employer is a car manufacturer, the scheme is not operated as per standard leasing contracts. Although we have a fleet provider and office, who manage the process, the T&Cs relating to our use of company cars states

The car will belong to you when this agreement is made. The risk of any loss or damage to it will be yours from this time.

Essentially we 'buy' the car on a finance arrangement in terms of book keeping, but from an employees perspective it is a 'lease'.

Thus if I am correct, I am indeed the registered keeper, and the keeper. And should proceed actually aligned to the normal process for non-company car drivers?

My previous assumption that correspondence would be delivered to the fleet operator was based on past experience with a speeding fine, however in this case it was a pool car, not a company vehicle. I should therefore expect any NTK to be issued directly to me as keeper... but can check this with the provider if applicable.

Umkomaas

Thanks for clarifying that. Just await the NtK which seems as though that will come direct to you, then take care of that via the NEWBIES sticky initial appeal, ultimately through to POPLA.

From what you say the NtD seems not to imply pursuit under Railway Byelaws, but just keep your eye out for what the NtK contains.

Come back at any stage for further help/advice/reassurance.

bod1467

Do you have the V5C? If not, who does? Whose name is on it? (As that's what DVLA will provide to the PPC when they request details).

Airwalker1979

I don't have v5c...

Airwalker1979

Apologies for the changing scenario here. Despite the claim in the contract T&Cs as posted above, my fleet admin has confirmed that my company remains the defined owner on the V5C, and they receive and handle all correspondence for items such as PCN's as the agent acting on behalf of (and indeed as) my company.

So the NtK will be sent to the fleet operator in this case.

Do I therefore revert to the guidance to pre-empt this being sent and write to MET now as the keeper, following the template in the Newbie guide. Or do I wait for them to issue to my Fleet company, who will forward it on to me to reply at that time?

Umkomaas

Ask your fleet administrator in whose name the V5C is written. I would expect he/she would be on top of things like this? Or would know how to find out.

Airwalker1979

Might have just gotten out of synch in replying there. Update to that question is above, thanks.

Airwalker1979

Given update above on the name held within the V5C (not mine, it is my company afterall), can anyone advise me further please?

Do I revert to the guidance to pre-empt this being sent and write to MET now as the keeper, following the template in the Newbie guide. Or do I wait for them to issue to my Fleet company, who will forward it on to me to reply at that time?

Thanks

Airwalker1979

Can anyone please help with an answer to the above? Thanks