Who do I name on Section 21?

IceScraper

House is rented to Mr Renter and Miss Tenant and the AST, now a SPT is in their names. They live there with their 3 children, 2 of which are over 18, and one of these has moved their partner in (who is also over 18).


It's time to go and a S21 is required.


Who gets named on this?


Mr Renter and Miss Tenant?


Or all the over 18's living there?

Kynthia

I believe it's whoever is named as 'the tenant' on the AST, whether that's one of more people. I wouldn't include people who weren't on the agreement.

Pollygarter

That's right. You address the notice to the tenants named in the AST. Produce two copies of the same notice, one addressed to Mr Tenant and one addressed to Mrs Tenant. And serve them separately by hand or recorded delivery. You need to prove service to get a possession order. Complete a certificate of service for each one. Think its N215 which you can fill in and print off on HMCTS website. Then hope they go so as to save yourself the time and cost of the county court. Remember its two months clear notice even in a periodic tenancy at the end of a fixed term. And also remember you cannot evict if tenants do not leave voluntarily without a court order. That would be an offence and there are fines and compensation to tenant etc. Good luck!

Pollygarter

Oh and others living in the property who are not on the tenancy have not acquired one with you.

When there's a sale of a property with over 18s living there who don't own it, its good practice for the conveyancer to get them to sign the sale contract as a way of showing the owners haven't given them a tenancy of any kind.

With a tenancy, if you ever get the situation where the tenant leaves anyone in the property, and yes it does happen, you still carry on taking action against the tenants to get your possession order...they haven't given you vacant possession.

Best.

anselld

Pollygarter wrote: »

That's right. You address the notice to the tenants named in the AST. Produce two copies of the same notice, one addressed to Mr Tenant and one addressed to Mrs Tenant. And serve them separately by hand or recorded delivery. You need to prove service to get a possession order. Complete a certificate of service for each one. Think its N215 which you can fill in and print off on HMCTS website. Then hope they go so as to save yourself the time and cost of the county court. Remember its two months clear notice even in a periodic tenancy at the end of a fixed term. And also remember you cannot evict if tenants do not leave voluntarily without a court order. That would be an offence and there are fines and compensation to tenant etc. Good luck!

In a joint and several tenancy "the tenant" is effectively a single legal entity comprising two named people. It seems perverse, therefore, to serve them individually.

jjlandlord

Addressing the notice (even if it is rightly in both names) to a joint-tenant individually is taking a risk, as the court may decide that it was not served on "the tenant".

G_M

Agree. Don't serve individual notices.

And serving by recorded delivery, which the recipient may not be able (or may choose not) to accept/sign for, could lead to a legal dispute as to whether it was served or not.

Two identical copies, both addressed to the joint tenants, posted 1st class from two different post offices with 'proof of posting'.

Pollygarter

Agreed that joint tenants are jointly and severally liable. And the notice is addressed to both of them as I said. But many large landlords will serve two copies of an identical notice addressed to all joint tenants in two separate envelopes, one to Mr and one to Mrs...or whatever the composition of your joint tenant may be .

In practice you will find county court judges want to see that you have taken every step to notify all parties, especially where relationship breakdown and that old tendency to bury and hide debts even within relationships may mean that one tenant has hidden the issue from the other.

Service by hand is the easiest to prove. Recorded delivery works if they sign! So its useful if you live in St Ives and your tenants live in Norwich. Instructing an agent costs more. Proof of postage is not proof of delivery.

County court judges are very pro tenant. Taking steps to make someone homeless is a serious business so that is right. Showing you have got your paperwork spot on is always going to help you in court. In difficult cases all and anything can be raised by a tenant who doesn't want to leave and you never want to be in a position where one tenant says well I never saw that notice..whatever the legal rights and wrongs of joint tenancy and proof of service.

Do as you will of course, but this is currently favoured practice by a great many landlords...and for good reason...they've seen all the shenanigans on an average day on the average county court possession list!

martindow

Pollygarter wrote: »

Proof of postage is not proof of delivery.

I understood that courts accepted first class as delivered two working days after sending. If two letters are sent from two POs as suggested the certificates of posting are more than adequate.

anselld

Pollygarter wrote: »

Agreed that joint tenants are jointly and severally liable. And the notice is addressed to both of them as I said.

But that is not what you said. You said ...

Pollygarter wrote: »

You address the notice to the tenants named in the AST. Produce two copies of the same notice, one addressed to Mr Tenant and one addressed to Mrs Tenant.

Two notices, one addressed to MrT and one addressed to Mrs T is not the same as one notice addressed to Mr & Mrs T.

The one notice to Mr & Mrs. T should be copied twice and sent by first class (not recorded) to "the address for serving notices" from separate post offices with proof of delivery and allowing two days for postage.

It will then be considered served under the Civil Procedure rules .....

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...ns/pd_part_06a

Pollygarter

That first bit is certainly true, I blame 6am in the morning when I wrote take two copies of the same notice and address them separately. Not as clear as it should have been, I agree. Same notice, different covering letter was what I should have said.

As for the procedural rules ... Well I don't know any working lawyers who would advise first class post. You can also serve by fax but again...it isn't seen as good practice. All a tenant needs to do is raise a reasonable doubt in the judges mind that their post goes astray, the postman got sacked for knicking, next door gets their post etc and you have no case. I'm not saying this to be pedantic, I'm saying it because I've seen it happen. For the sake of clarity in what can be a very expensive business if you get it wrong, I suggest you walk and do it on foot if local!