About time buying/selling in England changed....

Pixie5740

martin1959 wrote: »

The Scottish system is far more logical. Probably one of the only benefits of living in Scotland!!

You don't live in Scotland nor do you let any properties in Scotland. That's two further benefits of living in Scotland straight off the bat.

rosie383 wrote: »

What is the difference in Scotland please? I think I have gathered that once an offer is accepted it becomes legally binding. Is that the case?
And are there drawbacks to the system there? If not, would it be a good system to implement in England?

The vendor has the home report survey done so buyers have a fairly good idea on the condition of the property before even getting to the stage of making an offer. However, buyers can have further surveys carried out such as a structural or timber survey and make an offer "subject to surveys".


Offers have to be made through solicitors rather than wide boy estate agents. Solicitors are bound by the rules of the Law Society of Scotland, even in their estate agency work, whereas non-solicitor estate agents are unregulated. Offers need to include a date of entry.

Buyers really have to be able to proceed when they make an offer, none of this "waiting to form a chain" nonsense. Once a vendor has accepted an offer they can't turn around and accept another offer from someone else because once a solicitor has agreed to accept an offer from a property buyer then that solicitor cannot then accept an offer from another buyer because that would be against the rules of the Law Society.

Time you lot south of the border caught up.

jb66

martin1959 wrote: »

It takes too long, and it is too easy for either party to pull out, leaving the other party to start again, perhaps after several months.


It allows one party to 'blackmail' the other by either reducing their offer just prior to exchange, or threatening to pull out if the purchaser does not increase their offer.......


The Scottish system is far more logical. Probably one of the only benefits of living in Scotland!!

Free Perscriptions and free further education isnt bad either

Mickygg

I agree with OP. Too easy for someone to pull out with no financial implication.
Also too many people offer on several properties, to then decide which one they want over next few weeks. A friend of mine is doing that right now. He offers then decides if he really wants it after the offer has been accepted. Just a waste of so many people's time, but the current buying process allows that.
I would like to see strict timescales such as survey within a week of offer, then pay small deposit after survey and within 2 weeks of offer.

rosie383

That sounds great Pixie. Thanks for clarifying. It certainly would prevent a lot of the stress involved. After reading all of the horror stories here all I want is to get to exchange and then I can relax. Not worried about my buyer, and I think our vendor is now getting their finger out, but no idea about their vendor at the top of the chain who is supposedly chain-free. All of a sudden I've just had the awful thought: what if they aren't actually chain-free as we have seen so many times in this forum? It could all collapse. We waited, as per advice until the chain was complete before doing searches and survey is booked for Tues. Most of the house is packed up while we wait. But because of the system here, we have no surety. We are at the mercy of the whims of others.

davidmcn

haras_nosirrah wrote: »

Problem with the survey idea is that if there is something wrong with the property that is not on the survey then the buyer has no comeback - after all they didn't pay for the survey so the vendor is the surveyors client

No, the surveyor can have a duty of care to the buyer (and their lender). That's how it works with Home Reports in Scotland. There might still be a concern about the surveyor having a conflict of interest (as obviously the buyer would like a nice clean survey with a high market value), but surveyors' usual paranoia about being sued means that isn't so much of an issue.

Offers in Scotland can still be subject to survey (if e.g. the Home Report surveyor isn't on a buyer's lender's panel, or a specialist inspection is needed), in which case the expectation is that the buyer will get their survey instructed and make a decision pretty much immediately after the offer is accepted.

eddddy wrote: »

- The seller and buyer could then enter into a pre-contract deposit agreement.

Otherwise known as a "contract". And there would still have to be some sort of pre-pre-contract period between an offer being "accepted" and the parties wanting to commit themselves / find the money for the deposit (incidentally, we don't bother with deposits in Scotland - the contractual commitment is generally considered enough).

rosie383 wrote: »

What is the difference in Scotland please? I think I have gathered that once an offer is accepted it becomes legally binding. Is that the case?
And are there drawbacks to the system there? If not, would it be a good system to implement in England?

The offer comes with a date of entry stated and a full contract attached (conditional on there being a marketable title, clear searches, etc). Once that is accepted in writing by the sellers' solicitor, there is a binding contract.

It's not as instant as many people think. The parties who have the main problems with this system are those who don't want to commit themselves until a later stage e.g. because they are effectively trying to form a chain and aren't sure when they want to complete the sale/purchase.

Also (and no system can really avoid this) the usual delay is caused by buyers not having their funding in place - so they won't conclude a contract until they have a full mortgage offer and/or a concluded contract for their sale. And given some of the delays in getting mortgage applications processed, this can mean that there's often no earlier certainty than there would be in England.

Or a buyer may need to know that there is planning permission etc for alterations to a property, and the seller is still trying to find the title deeds or sort out retrospective consents or indemnities - that can frequently hold up contracts.

I think in general there's more of a commitment by everybody involved to get the deal done, and the professional rules help. Gazumping / gazundering is still possible before missives are concluded, but even more deeply frowned upon and you'd probably need to find a new solicitor.

rosie383

So from what you are saying there can still be many reasons for delay. but it stops people messing around with no thought as to the consequences to others. Sounds good to me. People only really pull out for good reason whereas in England ...

Annie1960

Pixie5740 wrote: »

You don't live in Scotland nor do you let any properties in Scotland. That's two further benefits of living in Scotland straight off the bat.



The vendor has the home report survey done so buyers have a fairly good idea on the condition of the property before even getting to the stage of making an offer. However, buyers can have further surveys carried out such as a structural or timber survey and make an offer "subject to surveys".


Offers have to be made through solicitors rather than wide boy estate agents. Solicitors are bound by the rules of the Law Society of Scotland, even in their estate agency work, whereas non-solicitor estate agents are unregulated. Offers need to include a date of entry.

Buyers really have to be able to proceed when they make an offer, none of this "waiting to form a chain" nonsense. Once a vendor has accepted an offer they can't turn around and accept another offer from someone else because once a solicitor has agreed to accept an offer from a property buyer then that solicitor cannot then accept an offer from another buyer because that would be against the rules of the Law Society.

Time you lot south of the border caught up.

So how does it work if someone needs to sell and buy at the same time?

davidmcn

Annie1960 wrote: »

So how does it work if someone needs to sell and buy at the same time?

I think there's more acceptance that people don't need to do that.

But if they want to, then generally they accept an offer for their sale with a date of entry which is long enough for them to find somewhere they can buy with an identical date. Or the other way round, if you're very confident of being able to sell quickly.

martin1959

haras_nosirrah wrote: »

Problem with the survey idea is that if there is something wrong with the property that is not on the survey then the buyer has no comeback - after all they didn't pay for the survey so the vendor is the surveyors client

The survey would be independent. Not carried out for either buyer or seller, although it would be the seller who pays for it...similar in the way an MOT test is carried out on a car. The seller of the car may have a MOT test carried out to prove to the purchaser it is in reasonable order at the time of sale, but the seller actually pays for it.

googler

martin1959 wrote: »

The vendor, as opposed to having a worthless energy report, has to have an independent survey carried out on the property, at the vendors expense. The survey must be less than six months old and would be available to any interested purchasers.

Substitute 12 weeks for 6 months (courtesy of the Council of Mortgage Lenders), and you have a duplicate of the Home Report that has applied in Scotland since Dec 2008

I've said before on these forums;

When you make an offer which is accepted in Scotland, you've agreed IN WRITING the price, the date of entry, and any movables to be included in the sale. Yes, there can be variation in any of these after the offer is accepted, but generally speaking, most sales go through on the same basis as contained in the offer. The offer, and written acceptance, contain pretty much the WHOLE of the contract between buyer and seller.

When an offer is accepted in E&W, the price may have been accepted, but the date of entry gets thrashed out later, possibly once the seller has found another property months later, and the 'fixtures and fittings list' is likewise thrashed out months later. So hardly anything is actually committed to or agreed upon when the offer is accepted. The contract doesn't even get agreed until weeks or months later!