Severe Issue With HMRC regarding underpaid tax

dave_the_worst_2

Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but here goes.

I recently received 3 letters from HMRC about penalties for late self assessment returns for years ending 2012, 2013 & 2014.

Now,I have never been self employed and was working Full Time until June 2013 before going on holiday and returning in September to attend uni.

Whilst I was away on holiday, I received a letter stating I had underpaid tax which was approximately £350 - they stated this would be collected via PAYE during the 2014 / 2015 tax year.

I thought nothing of this and binned the letter as I stupidly convinced myself that I would gain employment while at uni and this would take care of itself.

As you have probably guessed, I was unable to find employment whilst at uni, and now the tax year has ended I have now received 3 x £100 fines from HMRC!

I have spoken with them and they said that because I paid no tax during 2014/15 year, they have transferred it to self assessment.

Now - here's where I have a problem. I have no issue with paying my outstanding tax but I do have an issue with how this is being handled.

Until i receive copies of documents from HMRC, I can only speculate. I'm sure that my underpaid tax was from the year ending 13/14 only.

so why have they issued me with 3 x fines for each year? they have all my tax / employment records, and i also check with them to see if i'm entitled to any rebates etc. so this should have cropped up a lot earlier in my opinion.

IF i remembered correctly that my tax was underpaid from one year only, can they enforce the £10 per day late payment on each fine?

Also, can they transfer PAYE tax to self assessment without informing me of doing so? I have had no correspondence from HMRC between the letter in 2013 and the the letters received recently.

I am now looking at having to pay £300 in fines + outstanding tax and what looks like £30 per day for each day it is late whilst I wait for HMRC to send me my documents i need to register and fill out my self assessment.

Any advice on this????

FireWyrm

Your best bet is to make an appointment at your nearest HMRC triage centre and go and speak to someone. If you were not self employed at the time, I dont see how they can fine you for not filing a tax return. PAYE staff are not required to and never have been. This sounds like a bunch of computer generated fines for something that never happened. The only way to sort it out is to go a sit opposite someone in an office with all your paperwork and go through it.

Tixy

Its possible to be on the self-assessment tax regime without being self-employed, but you are only required to file a self-assessment tax return if you have been informed that you need to.

If they haven't sent you a notice to say you need to file one then they cannot impose a fine.

dave_the_worst_2

They said on the phone that because they were unable to collect the tax from PAYE during 14/15 tax year (as I wasn't working due to being at uni) it was transferred to self assessment.

I received no correspondence regarding this apart from 3 letters regarding a fines for 11/12, 12/13 & 13/14.

I was working during these tax years - albeit for a short time during 13/14 and they have this information as they are sending this out to me so I can complete the self assessment!

surely they have this completely wrong and my self assessment should be for 14/15 only!

I have just got back to my uni residence to find this letter today (dated 3 weeks ago though as went to see family and friends).
Have been told i'll receive everything to register etc. by the 29th!!!!

really don't know why they have "back dated" this to 4 years when I paid tax through PAYE.

I've been told to register and fill out the self assessment before complaining to HMRC about it - do you think they are correct about this or will it leave me in a position where I'll be screwed?

I certainly won't be able to afford to pay 3 x £100 fines + Tax + any daily charge(s) levied should I not get my documents on time.

FireWyrm

You need to speak to a HMRC advisor, preferably in person and very soon. Book an appointment at the local drop in centre and take every piece of paperwork you are likely to need. It seems unfair to us, but then, government tax collection was ever perverse and no one really understands it, even them.

Edit

There is also a board dedicated to tax and it's implications here : http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=22

You might get some more helpful answers over there since that is where the HMRC staff tend to hang out.

antonic

All HMRC Public Enquiry Centres were closed in June 2014.

The only way to contact them is by phone or online (I think).

Look here for more info

https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax/self-assessment

andyfromotley

As previously stated, its perfectly possible to be a PAYE employee and on self assessment, i was for years in a really run of the mill public sector role. Eventually they got bored of this completely pointless exercise and told they were stopping my self assessment.

I would imagine that they must of told you (or should have) that you were required to do so. Tbh though it sound as if you were a bit 'meh' tax people, about this, so it is possible that they did and you just didn't notice?

Either way contact them and discuss it asap, i have found them pretty reasonable and always have the feeling that the person you are speaking to can actually make decisions, so i have found that it paid fpor me to be very nice and engaging with them. (this may have been completely imaginary on my part though!!)

FireWyrm

antonic wrote: »

All HMRC Public Enquiry Centres were closed in June 2014.

You're kidding! That's absurd. Which twit thought that up?

antonic

FireWyrm wrote: »

You're kidding! That's absurd. Which twit thought that up?

Senior management at HMRC to improve efficiency ....

purdyoaten

There needs to be more clarity here - some of it simply does not add up on the information provided.

1) When did you get the penalty letters? Was it before or after the notification of the amount underpaid?

2) Receiving 'information to register' afterwards would tend to suggest that what you actually received 'information to rrgister for online filing' which is an entirely different matter.

3) The fines relate to the non-submission of the returns, not the underpayment. You need to establish beyond doubt that you did not receive the returns or notices to file.

4) I cannot understand how the underpayment relates to 2013/14 as you only worked for only three months of that tax year. To my mind, you would have 9/12 of your personal allowance still available. Can you provide details of the HMRC calculation of the underpayment, usually on a form P800?