Is it common for banks to lie when asking for PPI back?

magpiecottage

addedvaluebob wrote: »

'I run a consultancy to help Independent Financial Advisers to comply with their rules and resolve complaints'

You don't need any qualifications to do this either

As Insider101 says.

Insider101 wrote: »

No IFA firm nowadays is going to contract out complaints handling work to a consultant who is not at least FPC and more realistically level 4 diploma qualified.

Indeed the e-mails I regularly receive confirm this. As also say in my sig, I am qualified to give investment advice. I also have the Certificate in Regulated Complaints handling, Certificate in Regulated General Insurance, Level 4 Mortgage Advice Qualification, Advanced Certificate in Mortgage Advice and Practice amongst others.

addedvaluebob wrote: »

or work for FOS

Again, no legal requirement - but I see regular e-mail demanding qualifications if you want the job.

As regards CMCs being run by financial advisers, name them. I can't really see this, most IFAs I know regard CMCs as lower than a snakes belly!!!

I know of two. One only does so for their own financial advice clients where they believe a missale was made by a previous adviser.

The other, I understand, has recently landed in deep trouble with the FCA over it.

addedvaluebob wrote: »

It is a myth put out by the financial services industry that all CMC's are staffed by minimum wage temps operating on sales targets to dissuade people from making a complaint

Insider101 wrote: »

If it's a "myth" then it's not a very good one, since Magpie Cottage is the first person I've ever heard mention it. What you suggest above is completely illogical as it would not dissuade people from actually making a complaint, just from going to a CMC. FOS show no difference in their uphold rate for CMC complaints as compared to direct ones. There is just no reason for anyone with even average intelligence to use one!

I didn't bring it up, addedvaluebob suggested it, along with complaints handling staff.

My point is that if are properly qualified you can earn far more at an insurance company.

If you have vaguely relevant qualifications you can earn more at FOS.

So the CMCs are left with the dregs.

addedvaluebob

No IFA firm nowadays is going to contract out complaints handling work to a consultant who is not at least FPC and more realistically level 4 diploma qualified.

Huntswood
PPI Complaint Handlers
Hampshire, Andover - Interim - £145 to £145 per day

Hazell Carr
Complaint Handlers
Remuneration: £160 p/day
We are potentially looking for a team of complaint handlers to assist on a large project for a Midlands based client. You will be required to investigate and fully resolve the complaints, including issuing final decision letter and redress. Excellent communication skills and attention to detail are key. A minimum of 2 years financial services complaint handling experience is required, as well as a good awareness of DISP.

No requirement for any qualifications in either of these, there aren't enough level 4 qualified people to fill the jobs

As regards CMCs being run by financial advisers, name them. I can't really see this, most IFAs I know regard CMCs as lower than a snakes belly!!!

From a random selection of Surrey based advisers

Turpin Barker Armstrong FCA 112720 - CRM 31025
Pragmaticum FCA 501527 - CRM33525
The Legal consultancy (AR) FCA 572449 - CRM 33625
Genistar Ltd FCA 472050 - CRM 31720

There are 21 current CMC's in Surrey and I can match 4 of them, I did not look any deeper than names and postcodes so have not correlated directorships or owners but this would suggest that 20% of the CMC's are actually financial advisers

No, I can't be bothered to look through every county and authorised business. Perhaps the IFA's you meet don't like to own up that they are running a CMC on the side

brown1950

dunstonh wrote: »

No. There has been no evidence to suggest any bank has told lies.



The key is that things like PPI are not always easy to find on records. Especially on older records that were paper based or on previous computer systems which may not have had the data transferred to the current systems.

So, it is not uncommon for a bank staff member to initially find no evidence of PPI but later find it when more data comes to late (such as account numbers/reference numbers on payments which can identify the policy etc).

Oh Dear !


The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) has today fined Clydesdale Bank Plc (Clydesdale) £20,678,300 for serious failings in its Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) complaint handling processes between May 2011 and July 2013. This is the largest ever fine imposed by the FCA for failings relating to PPI.
In mid-2011 Clydesdale implemented inappropriate policies which meant that its PPI complaint handlers were not taking into account all relevant documents when deciding how to deal with complaints.
In addition, between May 2012 and June 2013, Clydesdale provided false information to the Financial Ombudsman Service in response to requests for evidence of the records Clydesdale held on PPI policies sold to individual customers. A team within Clydesdale’s PPI complaint handling operation altered certain system print outs (in a small number of cases) to make it look as if Clydesdale held no relevant documents and deleted all PPI information from a separate print out listing the products sold to the customer.

Nasqueron

brown1950 wrote: »

Oh Dear !


The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) has today fined Clydesdale Bank Plc (Clydesdale) £20,678,300 for serious failings in its Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) complaint handling processes between May 2011 and July 2013. This is the largest ever fine imposed by the FCA for failings relating to PPI.
In mid-2011 Clydesdale implemented inappropriate policies which meant that its PPI complaint handlers were not taking into account all relevant documents when deciding how to deal with complaints.
In addition, between May 2012 and June 2013, Clydesdale provided false information to the Financial Ombudsman Service in response to requests for evidence of the records Clydesdale held on PPI policies sold to individual customers. A team within Clydesdale’s PPI complaint handling operation altered certain system print outs (in a small number of cases) to make it look as if Clydesdale held no relevant documents and deleted all PPI information from a separate print out listing the products sold to the customer.

Presumably CMC that submit a claim saying the customer didn't know they had a policy and at the same time, felt they were forced to take the policy will be next in line for huge fines

brown1950

Nasqueron wrote: »

Presumably CMC that submit a claim saying the customer didn't know they had a policy and at the same time, felt they were forced to take the policy will be next in line for huge fines

What a pathetic response. How can you defend employee's of a Bank
lying to the FCA.

addedvaluebob

Well, that seems to answer the OP's original question then.

Absolutely yes

Nasqueron

brown1950 wrote: »

What a pathetic response. How can you defend employee's of a Bank
lying to the FCA.

I am not defending them, I am holding the CMCs to the same standards you hold the bank to.

The bank lied, they were caught and paid a fine.

A CMC submits a claim for miss-sale stating

Mr/Mrs X did not know they had PPI
Mr/Mrs X were told they had to have PPI to get the loan

This is clearly a lie as the two parts contradict each other.

So where is the fine for the CMC?

Nasqueron

addedvaluebob wrote: »

Well, that seems to answer the OP's original question then.

Absolutely yes

Erm no

OP's question was

Is it common for banks to lie when asking for PPI back?

Common (define) "occurring, found, or done often; prevalent."

One example provided where they did.

Ergo, no it is not common, it is very much the exception.

magpiecottage

addedvaluebob wrote: »

No IFA firm nowadays is going to contract out complaints handling work to a consultant who is not at least FPC and more realistically level 4 diploma qualified.

Huntswood
PPI Complaint Handlers
Hampshire, Andover - Interim - £145 to £145 per day

Hazell Carr
Complaint Handlers
Remuneration: £160 p/day
We are potentially looking for a team of complaint handlers to assist on a large project for a Midlands based client. You will be required to investigate and fully resolve the complaints, including issuing final decision letter and redress. Excellent communication skills and attention to detail are key. A minimum of 2 years financial services complaint handling experience is required, as well as a good awareness of DISP.

No requirement for any qualifications in either of these, there aren't enough level 4 qualified people to fill the jobs

Huntswood and Hazell Carr are not generally dealing with IFAs.

Andover is Lloyds Banking Group

From a random selection of Surrey based advisers

Turpin Barker Armstrong FCA 112720 - CRM 31025

These are accountants. Both financial services and CMC business are sidelines.

Pragmaticum FCA 501527 - CRM33525

Only permitted to offer non investment insurance contracts to commercial customers.

The Legal consultancy (AR) FCA 572449 - CRM 33625

Only permitted to introduce to one firm - and not to give advice.

Genistar Ltd FCA 472050 - CRM 31720

This is interesting. They say they can offer free reviews because they get paid for the products they sell by providers.

Given that they sell investment products, this seems to breach the commission ban.

So, four found. Three not IFAs and one apparently ignoring the FCA rules.

That is not to say that Clydesdale's conduct is not appalling - but it is also quite stupid since the FCA was clearly on the ball and checking - unlike the MOJ which appears to operate out of a beach hut in a landlocked county.

Insider101

addedvaluebob wrote: »

No IFA firm nowadays is going to contract out complaints handling work to a consultant who is not at least FPC and more realistically level 4 diploma qualified.

Huntswood
PPI Complaint Handlers
Hampshire, Andover - Interim - £145 to £145 per day

Hazell Carr
Complaint Handlers
Remuneration: £160 p/day
We are potentially looking for a team of complaint handlers to assist on a large project for a Midlands based client. You will be required to investigate and fully resolve the complaints, including issuing final decision letter and redress. Excellent communication skills and attention to detail are key. A minimum of 2 years financial services complaint handling experience is required, as well as a good awareness of DISP.

No requirement for any qualifications in either of these, there aren't enough level 4 qualified people to fill the jobs

Read my original post again. I'll make it easy and highlight the relevant provision:

"No IFA firm nowadays is going to contract out complaints handling work to a consultant who is not at least FPC and more realistically level 4 diploma qualified.

That Huntswood advert is for Lloyds bank in Andover and is not an IFA. I think it is actually PPI complaints, a general insurance product which requires no specific qualifications to advise on or sell it. I'm not sure who the Hazell Carr one is for, but it will be something along the same lines, or general banking/service complaints.

I'm well aware that what you say about being able to get level 4 qualified people is true. However, can only reiterate that no reputable IFA firm would contract out complaints about regulated sales to unqualified external consultants. They pay enough for outsourcing as it is and the FCA would never stand for it. Logically, how can someone review the suitability of advice provided by a qualified adviser if they themselves are not qualified to do so. Some will accept level 3 qualifications, but that would generally be the bare minimum.

From a random selection of Surrey based advisers

Turpin Barker Armstrong FCA 112720 - CRM 31025

Turpin Barker Armstrong is a chartered accountancy practice whose FCA regulated activities are limited to those incidental to their main accountancy business. They also have permission to carry out debt management insolvency related activities which will explain the reasons why they have become authorised as a CMC. Nowadays, pretty much the first thought of any IP when dealing with an insolvent's estate is "who can we try and cobble together a complaint against to try and bring in some money"?

Pragmaticum FCA 501527 - CRM33525

Not a financial adviser. Do not even have advising on their FCA scope of permission.

The Legal consultancy (AR) FCA 572449 - CRM 33625

An appointed rep of Belmont International Ltd, whose permissions are limited to some minor insurance mediation.

Genistar Ltd FCA 472050 - CRM 31720

Whose website states: "Genistar is a financial education company and our mission is to help families become debt free and financially independent". Another debt management company who dabble in the CMC market (via their subsiary "Give Me My Money") on an opportunistic basis.

There are 21 current CMC's in Surrey and I can match 4 of them, I did not look any deeper than names and postcodes so have not correlated directorships or owners but this would suggest that 20% of the CMC's are actually financial advisers

No, I can't be bothered to look through every county and authorised business. Perhaps the IFA's you meet don't like to own up that they are running a CMC on the side

See comments above. You've mentioned four companies and not a genuine IFA among them. Two of them don't even have the required permissions!!!