Disciplinary Action vs. Resigning

Cornucopia

It's your call, although personally I wouldn't want to be pushed around by them.

If they are serious about letting you go on good terms, then it really shouldn't be that hard for them to do so properly. The idea of a CA is that it does put guarantees around the benefits they are giving you, as well as providing you with advice.

How long have you worked there? What is at stake in terms of the rights you are giving up?

Undervalued

Cornucopia wrote: »

There is a correct name and procedure for this kind of termination by mutual consent, which is a Compromise Agreement.

CAs have certain legal protections built in, and they shouldn't be pressuring you to resign whilst there is a better and more appropriate solution. [Sorry, but I do think badly of a large company that wouldn't know all this, or would try to deceive someone about it].

I would go back to the HR people and "invite" them to restructure the offer in terms of a CA. CAs come with an entitlement to free, independent legal advice, which you will probably find helpful and reassuring. Is there a Union (even though you are not a member)? They could help with finding an appropriate solicitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_agreement

Somewhat out of date!

Now called a "settlement agreement".

For such an agreement to be valid the employee must receive advice from a solicitor (or specially trained trade union official) however there is not and never has been an "entitlement" to this being free. It is customary for the agreement to include a sum of money towards this but not obligatory. Even then it tends to be the absolute minimum and certainly won't pay for the solicitor to negotiate a better deal.

In any case, getting this right is primarily to protect the company. If they don't the employee could simply take whatever has been informally offered then still pursue any legal claim against the company.

stugib

Cornucopia wrote: »

There is a correct name and procedure for this kind of termination by mutual consent, which is a Compromise Agreement.

Except they're now called Settlement Agreements

Cornucopia wrote: »

CAs come with an entitlement to free, independent legal advice, which you will probably find helpful and reassuring. Is there a Union (even though you are not a member)? They could help with finding an appropriate solicitor.

dandostew, a Settlement Agreement is only valid after consulting a solicitor, though the company should pay for this.

I expect they're nervous that you'll claim they haven't supported your mental health issues so if it is an SA then you'll almost certainly be waiving any further rights to make future claims. The solicitor will advise you on your rights and whether what they're offering is fair. It's a confusing time being suddenly dropped into all these legal processes so get all the advice you can.

But I'd ask if that's what they're proposing first - just say you've heard about SAs and wondered if that's what they're talking about. IIRC they can't threaten withdrawal of an offer as a way to force you to accept it.

Undervalued

stugib wrote: »

IIRC they can't threaten withdrawal of an offer as a way to force you to accept it.

Yes, of course they can!

Until an agreement has been reached they could at any point revert to the legal minimum, effectively saying "take us to a tribunal if you think you are entitled to more".

stugib

Undervalued wrote: »

Until an agreement has been reached they could at any point revert to the legal minimum, effectively saying "take us to a tribunal if you think you are entitled to more".

Was thinking of the ACAS guide:

The test of ‘improper behaviour’ is not intended to interfere with existing and acceptable negotiating practices in relation to settlement agreements.

For example, it is common practice to make offers of financial payment that include a reasonable time-limit for responses.

However, employers should consider whether their presentation of an offer could be perceived by an employment tribunal as ‘improper behaviour’. For instance, adopting a negotiating tactic that the amount offered reduces progressively while the employee is considering the offer could be considered as applying undue pressure on the individual to rush a decision, and therefore constitute ‘improper behaviour’.

What constitutes undue pressure will, however, depend on the particular circumstances of each case. For example, should an employer’s financial position, or other factors outside of their control, suddenly change significantly, they may be able to withdraw or amend a financial offer within the period that the
employee has been given to consider that offer, without that constituting undue pressure.

Undervalued

stugib wrote: »

But I'd ask if that's what they're proposing first - just say you've heard about SAs and wondered if that's what they're talking about.

Be careful about this.

As I said earlier, quietly taking an informal "pay off" doesn't stop you making a tribunal claim if you have a valid case. The SA / CA primarily protects the company as you would be signing away all claims (with one or two technical exceptions).

The main protection you MIGHT get from a SA would be an agreed reference. Even if you won a tribunal they have no power to order the firm to give you a reference and they can often be worth far more than any financial award.

Undervalued

stugib wrote: »

Was thinking of the ACAS guide:

Yes but "could be perceived" is the relevant phrase. In other words might / possibly / maybe!

dandostew

Ok, so if the Settlement Agreement protects the employer from a claim then I'm not happy with that.

As it stands, I was suspended EOP on Wednesday, the disciplinary meeting is Monday AM and I've received no information on this. All I've heard is what I'd receive if I resigned BY Monday AM. I've emailed twice today asking for the information and evidence but not heard back.

I want to speak to my GP but he's on annual leave until the 22nd April and HR have made it clear I need to resign before the disciplinary meeting, so I do feel pressured to accept. Don't get me wrong, I feel the offer is good to accept, but then I don't know what I'm giving up by accepting.

Takeaway_Addict

Cornucopia wrote: »

There is a correct name and procedure for this kind of termination by mutual consent, which is a Compromise Agreement.

CAs have certain legal protections built in, and they shouldn't be pressuring you to resign whilst there is a better and more appropriate solution. [Sorry, but I do think badly of a large company that wouldn't know all this, or would try to deceive someone about it].

I would go back to the HR people and "invite" them to restructure the offer in terms of a CA. CAs come with an entitlement to free, independent legal advice, which you will probably find helpful and reassuring. Is there a Union (even though you are not a member)? They could help with finding an appropriate solicitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_agreement

ironic.....

Takeaway_Addict

dandostew wrote: »

Ok, so if the Settlement Agreement protects the employer from a claim then I'm not happy with that.

As it stands, I was suspended EOP on Wednesday, the disciplinary meeting is Monday AM and I've received no information on this. All I've heard is what I'd receive if I resigned BY Monday AM. I've emailed twice today asking for the information and evidence but not heard back.

I want to speak to my GP but he's on annual leave until the 22nd April and HR have made it clear I need to resign before the disciplinary meeting, so I do feel pressured to accept. Don't get me wrong, I feel the offer is good to accept, but then I don't know what I'm giving up by accepting.

See another doctor?