Prenup on the cheap?

purpleshoes_2

They actually don't cost that much to draw up, according to a couple of legal firms I googled. From £750 to £1500 plus VAT.

Surely with the cash you save not having to pay a mortgage, you can afford that kind of sum for a pre nup document?

rpc

corum_uk67 wrote: »

the third said they wouldn't be interested as they had not drawn up the agreement themselves and so couldn't comment on it. Apparently they were suggesting their trained solicitors would not understand a basic and generic legal document. What they were really saying of course is that there wouldn't be enough money in it for them :-)

What they probably meant (if you weren't being quite so obstinate) is that they aren't prepared to accept liability for something that their client found on the internet.

It isn't about understanding - if they advise you on the prenup then they are accepting liability if there is a problem with it. So they will prefer to use their own.


If you and your spouse want a prenup, start from that point with a solicitor. Don't jump ahead. I don't see why this couldn't be transacted as a fixed fee piece of work so you should be able to get a decent quote in advance.

74jax

We have a pre-nup, my hubby wanted one and I couldn't have cared less (mainly because I only had a house). As I didn't mind either way we had one drawn up and signed away.

They do have no legal standing at the moment but several cases have gone to court where they have distributed the assets according to the pre-nup, it would also stand should they ever become a legal document - rather than make one afterwards.

I understand many people on here can't see why you would have one, but if both parties don't mind then you might as well, the issue would clearly be different if one wanted one and the other didn't.

I got married at 19, never dreaming it would end, but it did. If I was in my hubby's position with so much money, investments, property blah blah I would more than likely be in the same mind as him.

I did however make a clause in the pre-nup that if he was found to cheat then the pre-nup became invalid.

System

you may be better off putting it into some sort of trust but speak to a legal bod who knows what they are doing

Thistle-down

I'm a bit surprised at all the negativity - sounds like getting a prenup to protect the house is a good idea.

Lots of marriages fail, no matter how good intentioned they were in the beginning.

stir_crazy

Thistle-down wrote: »

I'm a bit surprised at all the negativity - sounds like getting a prenup to protect the house is a good idea.

Lots of marriages fail, no matter how good intentioned they were in the beginning.

I'm not sure that a pre-nup itself is a bad idea, if you have something before the relationship and want to protect it if anything goes wrong.

However I do think it is silly that the OP is trying to do it on the cheap and that they and their partner really should seek proper legal advice rather than try to get a solicitor to endorse a knock off document.

Amara

Why everything in marriage has to be shared? Why people don't like pre-nups so much? What's wrong with wanting to protect yourself , just in case?
We had so many cases here marriages failed and people are ruthless with getting their share , long stories about horrible exes. I wonder how many of them thought afterwards: should've done a pre-Nup .
On other hand: if you want a pre-nup , do it properly , not cheaply and DIY.

TBagpuss

fairy_lights wrote: »

As far as I know pre-nups don't have any legal standing in this country.

Pre Nups are not legally enforceable. However, in the event of a divorce, if the parties cannot agree on financial issues, a court has to decide what is "fair and reasonable in all the circumstances" The circumstances include the existance and terms of any pre-nup.

It is really important that the pre-nup meets all the necessary criteria - e.g. hat both parties have provided full disclosure, each has received independent advice, there is no undue pressure on either etc. The weight given to it in any later divorce will tend to gradually reduce over time, as circumstnaces change.

Obviously whether or not to have one is very much a personal choice but it can be very helpful as, done properly, it means that the couple are forced to consider, and discuss, their assumptions and expectations around financial issues, which can help to avoid problems later on.

I don;t think that having a prenup assumes that the marriage will fail, any more than having house insurance assumes that your house will burn down. It simply means that if things do go wrong, you have reduced the stress, cost and uncertainty. You may also have reduced the risk of things going wrong as you are less likely to have fundemental problems over money matters if you have already considered and agreed on those issues.

OP, I think you would be better of getting a solicitor to draft your agreement for you. If you and your fiancee are clear on what you want in the agreement then drafting it will not be a major job and you should be able to get a quote for this to be done. I would expect costs to be somewhere in the region of £500 - £1,000 for you, and probably slightly less for your fiancee.

I think that the reason the solicitors are not willing to sign off on your home made draft is that they are aware that they will probably end up either having to amend it so much they might as well have drafted it in the fist place, or to advise you against signing it in the current form and then risk you complaining if you later find it does not work as you hoped.

corum_uk67

Well thanks for the responses so far. Clearly a somewhat divisive and to some an emotive issue :-)

Just to clarify, i've previously researched as best I can on this topic and my understanding is that:

Legal Standing

Prenups have no basis in law, however a precedent was set during the Radmacher v Granatino case in 2010 where decisive weight was given to the agreement.
The Law Commission have conducted a study in 2014 and recommended that prenups be made legally binding, as long as they meet certain standards and do not leave either party reliant on benefits.

The criteria which commonly crops up and which is found in the law commission recommendations is that, for it to be legally binding it must:

• Be a valid contract and signed as a deed
• Not be unfair to either party (e.g. leaves one on benefits whilst the other partner sips champagne)
• Be entered into without duress or unfair influence
• The parties should seek independent legal advice from separate solicitors (even though this was missing in the Radmacher v Granatino case)
• Be made no less than 28 days before the wedding
• Include full disclosure of assets

Use of Free Templates

The suggestion that an 'internet' template legal document has no validity just doesn't hold water. If you instruct a Solicitor all they are going to do is use their own template, fill in the blanks, ask if you would like to add or remove additional clauses, advise you on its contents then charge £1,500 quid for about two hours work.
Internet templates have all been drafted by qualified solicitors, often ones who specialise in that particular field. They are just as good, if not better than one that you'd be given from any instructed solicitor.

As far as liability goes, all the Solicitor is doing is advising you on what the clauses could mean to you (and of course your partner), along with a caveat that they have no legal standing yet. To give an example from employment law, if someone were to be offered a 'compromise agreement', they would take it to their solicitor for advice. The solicitor wouldn't have written it he would just be advising on it, so no different to what we are looking for with the prenup.

I really do think that the reluctance of the solicitors to engage so far on this is purely because they will be missing out on a pocket full of greenbacks. I'd be happy to spend a grand on this but think I would be very lucky to get anywhere near this price if I had to use their own 'template'. At the end of the day its a very basic agreement with only one asset to be included.

Mojisola

Amara wrote: »

Why everything in marriage has to be shared?

Because that's the law you agree to when you get married.

Why people don't like pre-nups so much? What's wrong with wanting to protect yourself , just in case?

If you don't want to share all your worldly possessions, don't get married. There's plenty of couples who live together these days.

All the plans to do with organising a wedding are about the day - it's about time couples were made to sit down and read about what a marriage means in legal terms before saying the words and signing the register.