Sole Trader Business - Want to Switch Electricity Provided from SSE

robatbentley

macman wrote: »

Your domestic usage is, bluntly, insane. To run an all electrci property with E7 is sensible with NSH's and an immersion heater, but then to have electric heaters running all day as well is absurd, as all the day (peak) rate usage is charged at a premium rate. What is the insulation in this property that makes it leach heat at such a rate? What have you done to reduce that?
To make sense of this you need to tell us the annual kWh consumption on each E7 register (|night and day), and what tariff you are on.
Regardless of this, a switch to a domestic tariff will save you an instant 15% on the VAT alone, in addition to a cheaper domestic rate as well. That would be a start-but, with bills of £4,200 a year (about 350% higher than the UK average), not nearly enough.

You sound like me when I'm having a go at the in-laws:(. The main service bills have just recently been handed over to me and I'm now finding the horror stories hidden beneath.
The insulation is okay (checked the bungalows loft). The problem is having old people living with us who have no concept of the connection between electricity consumption and bills. e.g. Forget to turn-off hot water taps, leave external doors open, the list is endless. ...and I'm pulling my hair out trying to get it all under control. ...so bear with me!

I can't provide a detailed breakdown of yearly consumption split into the various rates, but the tables below will give you a rough idea as to where it all goes:

Table 1) Current House cost per unit (exc vat & CCL)
Night Units________ 7.169ppu
Weekday Day Units 11.715ppu
Other Times Units __10.57ppu

Table 2) Total Units/year (assume 30-40% is E7)
2010-2011 38,400 units
2011-2012 36,400 units
2012-2013 24,800 units
2013-2014 30,000 units
2014-2015 23,600 units (so far)

Don't know if the above will get me any further forward but may help the (real) world out there appreciate my frustrations and sense of urgency in getting it sorted.

Robin9

macman wrote: »

Your domestic usage is, bluntly, insane. To run an all electrci property with E7 is sensible with NSH's and an immersion heater, but then to have electric heaters running all day as well is absurd, as all the day (peak) rate usage is charged at a premium rate. What is the insulation in this property that makes it leach heat at such a rate? What have you done to reduce that?
To make sense of this you need to tell us the annual kWh consumption on each E7 register (|night and day), and what tariff you are on.
Regardless of this, a switch to a domestic tariff will save you an instant 15% on the VAT alone, in addition to a cheaper domestic rate as well. That would be a start-but, with bills of £4,200 a year (about 350% higher than the UK average), not nearly enough.

As macman says your domestic use is insane - first contact SSE and swop to their best domestic tariff. The original tariff selection was probably an error by the then owner.

Plenty of choices in business tariffs for the Riding Centre.

robatbentley

Robin9 wrote: »

...first contact SSE and swop to their best domestic tariff. The original tariff selection was probably an error by the then owner.

Done! Just kicked-off an email to the account manager (david.darker@sse.com) in SSE. i.e.

Robatbentley wrote:

Mr Darker,

Q1: Please advise why my residential home has been designated as a Micro Business tariff?
Q2: Please advise if my home (aka Equestrian Centre) is on the cheapest tariff available.

Background...
My wifes business (which you reference as Bentley Riding Center) is on the same site as our home (your reference Equestrian Centre). Both of the 2 MPAN accounts are assigned as Micro Business. However, I strongly believe that our home should be on a residential and cheaper tariff. ...and what actions need to be taken to resolve this problem.

As a matter of urgency, I'd like to explain why my residential home is on a business contract. See details below.

Equestrian Centre (aka our home)
Customer account number: 5613360112
MPAN prefix: 04139247
MPAN: 1012901470966
Meter Number: Z99E044821

Bentley Riding Center (aka our business)
Customer account number: 3429792318
MPAN prefix: 03136237
MPAN: 1012901473726
Meter Number: Z03E193269

--
Rob Higgins
Bentley Riding School
Tel: 01473 311715

macman

Since you appear to have 3 unit rates, not 2, this is not conventional E7 metering, as it is able to distinguish between weekday day units and weekend day units. I assume this is something unique to business metering, so you may well need a meter change to go to an E7 residential tariff.
However, you cannot possibly 'assume' that 30/40% is the night rate component of E7, and since the break point is typically around 33%, you must get hold of the exact annual kWh figures-they will be on the annual statement, calculated from the last four bills, or available from the supplier with one phone call. I suspect that, given the conditions you have described, the night rate usage may well be much lower than 30%, in which case E7 may well be entirely unsuitable, as you are heating 17 hours out of 24 on peak rate.
You can't begin to control your consumption until you first know what you are using.
PS: I can see no issue in switching from a business to a residential tariff, at most all you would need to do is provide a copy of your council tax bill for the house, which will demonstrate that is is purely a residential property, as opposed to the business property, on which you will be paying business rates.

robatbentley

macman wrote: »

However, you cannot possibly 'assume' that 30/40% is the night rate component of E7, and since the break point is typically around 33%, you must get hold of the exact annual kWh figures-they will be on the annual statement, calculated from the last four bills, or available from the supplier with one phone call.

I agree! ...but it means going though all my last 4 years worth of paper bills again...! ...as my in-laws haven't saved any paper-bill annual summaries. I also assumed that it was (partly) the responsibilty of the service provider to indicate when the customer should be moved onto a more appropriate tarrif. Then again, I think that my own spread-sheet anaysis would be more reliable. Yes, another trawl through the paper-bills is on for tomorrow, and I'll provide a more accurate % for the E7 figures.

Tried registering for an on-line account but can't because their registration form doesn't like any of my meter+a/c number or tenderID+a/c number combinations. Asked for help from SSE about 1 week ago on this and still no response!

Looks like this is going to take a bit of time but getting a much better idea of how to move forward.:)

macman

robatbentley wrote: »

I agree! ...but it means going though all my last 4 years worth of paper bills again...! ...as my in-laws haven't saved any paper-bill annual summaries. I also assumed that it was (partly) the responsibilty of the service provider to indicate when the customer should be moved onto a more appropriate tarrif. Then again, I think that my own spread-sheet anaysis would be more reliable. Yes, another trawl through the paper-bills is on for tomorrow, and I'll provide a more accurate % for the E7 figures.

Tried registering for an on-line account but can't because their registration form doesn't like any of my meter+a/c number or tenderID+a/c number combinations. Asked for help from SSE about 1 week ago on this and still no response!

Looks like this is going to take a bit of time but getting a much better idea of how to move forward.:)

You just need to go back one year. Find 2 bills approx 365 days apart, and, for each rate, deduct the older meter reading from the newer one-or phone SSE and they will tell you.
The supplier is obliged to tell you the cheapest tariff for your metering, which you may well be on. Not to tell you if you should be on a different metering system.
And this measure is a relatively new one applying to residential tariffs-I doubt that any such requirement applies to business tariffs, which have little in the way of consumer protection.
It's possible that you cannot register for an online account on this business tariff, or not by the process you are trying.

footyguy

[QUOTE=robatbentley]
I strongly believe that our home should be on a residential and cheaper tariff
[/QUOTE]

Which SSE residential tariff were you thinking of, exactly? :huh:

The cheapest E7 tariff that SSE offers in your region appears to be
Day rate: 15.488p per kWh
Night Rate: 7.413p per kWh
Daily Standing charge: 16.44p per day

Prices include VAT @ 5%
If consumption is primarily for residential/domestic purposes then you should only be charged 5% VAT as has previously been advised.
Are you currently reclaiming all VAT as input VAT anyway?
(You probably shouldn't be for the residential property, at least not all of it. Speak to your accountant.)

You will have difficulty getting any other supplier to supply you a residential tariff with your current metering.

robatbentley

robatbentley wrote: »

Done! Just kicked-off an email to the account manager (david.darker@sse.com) in SSE. i.e.

His response was...

SSE_Business_Manager wrote:

From what I can gather the reason that the site MPAN: 1012901470966 currently forms part of the business arrangement is that the site was used as a part of the business perhaps from an admin capacity. This would have been requested in the past. However if the site in question is used purely for domestic purposes then it does have the option to be on domestic tariff prices and this is quite straightforward to change...

Finally managed to register for my on-line accounts, so spent a bit of time looking those bills and using them to calculate my average use over 3 and a bit (2012-2015) years:
Total average units/year: 25796
Average night units/year: 8835 (34% of total average)
Average weekday day units/year: 8509 (33% of total average)
Average Evening/weekend/other units/year: 8452 (33% of total average)

Next step is to see if a change to a domestic tariff (with SSE as an example) is financially viable, even with the reduction in vat.

robatbentley

footyguy wrote: »

Which SSE residential tariff were you thinking of, exactly? :huh:

The cheapest E7 tariff that SSE offers in your region appears to be
Day rate: 15.488p per kWh
Night Rate: 7.413p per kWh
Daily Standing charge: 16.44p per day

Really don't know. Tried phoning them today but passed around different departments for about 15 minutes so had to hang-up. Will see which on-line options they have then try giving them another ring.

Our current Micro Business rates are... assuming my maths is correct, and assuming I just add the CCL to the base rate and then apply vat. Let me know if I'm wrong on this.

Night units (exc CCL 0.541ppu & 20% vat): 7.169ppu
Night units (inc CCL & vat): =(7.169+0.541)+20%=9.252ppu
Weekday day units (exc CCL & vat): 11.715ppu
Weekday day units (inc CCL & vat): (11.715 + 0.541) + 20% = 14.707ppu
Other times units (exc CCL & vat): 10.572ppu
Other times units (inc CCL & vat): (10.572 + 0.541) + 20% = 13.335ppu

Comparing the above to the rates you provided, doesn't look like much of a saving, assuming your rates inc vat etc.

footyguy wrote: »

Prices include VAT @ 5%
If consumption is primarily for residential/domestic purposes then you should only be charged 5% VAT as has previously been advised.
Are you currently reclaiming all VAT as input VAT anyway?
(You probably shouldn't be for the residential property, at least not all of it. Speak to your accountant.)

Nope - not vat registered.

footyguy wrote: »

You will have difficulty getting any other supplier to supply you a residential tariff with your current metering.

Thanks for the heads-up. Guess I'm keener to see what SSE can do first even if it's a small gain moving onto a domestic tariff for the house. ...and then think about switching elsewhere.

macman

34% night rate use is right on the cusp. What you need to do now is put the figures through a comp site twice, once specifying E7 with the percentage split as calculated, and then again as a single rate. That will show you the cheapest rates and the difference between E7 and single rate. I suspect that if you are able to cut usage, then it's going to be on day usage not night, so E7 probably still best: but do the maths and you will know for sure.
Don't just look at SSE, as E7 rates vary considerably by supplier and region.
I don't understand why you think there will only be a small gain though? The immediate 15% VAT saving will be far greater than any tariff variation.