ESA Income based/Cont based and the Support Group

dori2o

Dad has been on ESA in the support group for 5 Years. He has several medical issues mostly related to back/neck/spine problems which are from the wear and tear he suffered whilst working.

For the first 2 years he was on CB ESA and was then changed over onto IB based ESA. At this point he lost £55 a week.

Yesterday he received a letter from the counil with a form to complete. It advised that their (Mum and Dad) Council Tax Benefit had been suspended from 20 March due to a change in his income. He called Council and was told that his ESA had increased.

This was the first he had heard of this and so called the DWP.

They confirmed that he had been moved from IB ESA onto CB ESA (he remains in the support group).

My Dad asked why as he was under the impression that CB ESA only lasted 2 ears and then you moved onto IB ESA.

The person at the DWP said that he was moving back onto CB ESA as he was in the support group and that because of this he should be on CB ESA.

My Mum has been looking in the internet and found some guidance on Age UK which states that anyone who claims ESA and is found unfit for work and placed in the support group should always remain on CB ESA and not move onto IB ESA.
(I think this is the page she looked at http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-benefits/employment-support-allowance/what-you-get-on-employment-and-support-allowance/)
Can anyone advise if this is right?

Also if it is right that he should nt have been moved onto IB ESA does hat mean he can request that the £55 a week he lost when he moved onto IB ESA despite being in the support group should be repaid to him?

Since they lost that £55 a week they have both been struggling (both are sick/disabled) They have some outstanding bills and there are repairs/maintenence jobs to be done one the house/arden that my Dad hasn‘t had the physical strength to do and they have not had the money to pay for so the money would come in handy about now.

Any advice apreciated

Torry_Quine

If you are on support rate ESA contribution based then there is no time limit so yes he shouldn't have been move on to income based. As you mention your mother was he getting an income-based top-up for her?

dori2o

Torry_Quine wrote: »

If you are on support rate ESA contribution based then there is no time limit so yes he shouldn't have been move on to income based. As you mention your mother was he getting an income-based top-up for her?

When he was moved onto IB ESA he lost £55 a week as they took into account my Mums IB which she has been on for years due to a severe lifelong/life limiting illness.

Torry_Quine

dori2o wrote: »

When he was moved onto IB ESA he lost £55 a week as they took into account my Mums IB which she has been on for years due to a severe lifelong/life limiting illness.

Has your mum been assessed yet for ESA? If so what was the result?

dori2o

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Has your mum been assessed yet for ESA? If so what was the result?

not yet, but I don‘t think it will be long

Torry_Quine

dori2o wrote: »

not yet, but I don‘t think it will be long

As she is getting IB which is contribution based then your father should have been kept on contribution based ESA.

I would think that he has a good case for having this back-dated.:(

epitome

There is not enough information here to comment upon.

Are you sure he was in SG from the start of ESA?
You should confirm this with DWP

Your Mum was always on IB and not claiming anything else like IS?

Your dad never claimed Carers Allowance?

It sounds to me like he was initially on WRAG Conts getting lets say £101 per week since 2010, Then on April 30th 2012 WRAG Conts finished, because of the new rules brought in. So he would then have been entitled to (approx)
(111 + 25 = 136) - 102 (IB) = £34
If one of them was on DLA care middle or high it would have been
(111 + 25 + 20 = 156) - 102 = £54 which is closer to what you said - "he lost £55"

He has now been re-assessed and put into SG so he is again entitled to ESA Conts SG £108.15

dori2o

epitome wrote: »

There is not enough information here to comment upon.

Are you sure he was in SG from the start of ESA?
You should confirm this with DWP

Your Mum was always on IB and not claiming anything else like IS?

Your dad never claimed Carers Allowance?

It sounds to me like he was initially on WRAG Conts getting lets say £101 per week since 2010, Then on April 30th 2012 WRAG Conts finished, because of the new rules brought in. So he would then have been entitled to (approx)
(111 + 25 = 136) - 102 (IB) = £34
If one of them was on DLA care middle or high it would have been
(111 + 25 + 20 = 156) - 102 = £54 which is closer to what you said - "he lost £55"

He has now been re-assessed and put into SG so he is again entitled to ESA Conts SG £108.15

NO.

I have some further information after speaking with parents last night.

Heres the information given to me in full.

DAD

Finished from work on grounds of Capability August 2010
Claimed ESA Late August 2010, awarded based on contributions.
Jan 2011 had ATOS assessment at Albert Bridge House in Manchester - placed in WRAG- still CB. Forced to attend utterly pointless WRAG meetings at Shaw Trust.
April 2012 had a claim form from DWP for ESA- Awarded ESA in Support Group April 2012 still CB.
August 2012 sent letter adv had used up 2 years of ESA contributions based so was now being moved to IB, lost £55 per week.
Told last week was being moved back to CB ESA, still in SG.

Dad has received Carers Allowance for Mum since August/September 2010 after he finished work. Couldn't have claimed before this as he was working more than 16 hours..

Dad has received DLA since Jan 2012 (HRM/LRC)


MUM

IB CB started mid 2003
DLA started mid 2003 (HRC/HRM)
Moved from IB to ESA CB in the Support Group June 2013 without medical




So, as you can see, my Dad has been in support group continuously since April 2012 but he was moved onto ESA IB from August 2012 despite being in SG and despite Mum still being on Incapacity Benefit.

At no point since April 2012 has my Dad been taken off ESA or been put into WRAG.

Prior to April 2012 he was in WRAG as he had to attend meetings at the Shaw Trust. These stopped when he was moved to the SG.

Any advice appreciated.

So, A) should he have been moved from CB to IB ESA in August 2012 considering he was in SG and Mum was receiving Incapacity Benefit?

b) If he shouldn't have been moved from CB to IB then should he not be entitled to claim a refund of the payments that were taken off him?

This history is taken from the letters sent by DWP. My parents never throw away any letters from DWP.

pmlindyloo

dori2o wrote: »

NO.

I have some further information after speaking with parents last night.

Heres the information given to me in full.

DAD

Finished from work on grounds of Capability August 2010
Claimed ESA Late August 2010, awarded based on contributions.
Jan 2011 had ATOS assessment at Albert Bridge House in Manchester - placed in WRAG- still CB. Forced to attend utterly pointless WRAG meetings at Shaw Trust.
April 2012 had a claim form from DWP for ESA- Awarded ESA in Support Group April 2012 still CB.
August 2012 sent letter adv had used up 2 years of ESA contributions based so was now being moved to IB, lost £55 per week.
Told last week was being moved back to CB ESA, still in SG.

Dad has received Carers Allowance for Mum since August/September 2010 after he finished work. Couldn't have claimed before this as he was working more than 16 hours..

Dad has received DLA since Jan 2012 (HRM/LRC)


MUM

IB CB started mid 2003
DLA started mid 2003 (HRC/HRM)
Moved from IB to ESA CB in the Support Group June 2013 without medical




So, as you can see, my Dad has been in support group continuously since April 2012 but he was moved onto ESA IB from August 2012 despite being in SG and despite Mum still being on Incapacity Benefit.

At no point since April 2012 has my Dad been taken off ESA or been put into WRAG.

Prior to April 2012 he was in WRAG as he had to attend meetings at the Shaw Trust. These stopped when he was moved to the SG.

Any advice appreciated.

So, A) should he have been moved from CB to IB ESA in August 2012 considering he was in SG and Mum was receiving Incapacity Benefit?

b) If he shouldn't have been moved from CB to IB then should he not be entitled to claim a refund of the payments that were taken off him?

This history is taken from the letters sent by DWP. My parents never throw away any letters from DWP.

I suggest that you gather all the information (letters) together and take them to CAB - choose one with a benefits specialist or a welfare advisor (if your council have these) to sort out. You will also need your parents' bank statements for the years in question to see what payments have been made.

One thing that I noticed was that your dad seems to be getting Carer's Allowance whilst receiving contribution based ESA. CA and contribution based ESA are overlapping benefits and cannot be paid together. He may have been moved to income based ESA so that he could receive CA. The CA amount would have been used as income but then a Carer's Premium added to his ESA - this can only be done if the claim is income based.

Mmmm all very strange - go and get some professional help unless someone like Epitome can unravel it.

dori2o

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I suggest that you gather all the information (letters) together and take them to CAB - choose one with a benefits specialist or a welfare advisor (if your council have these) to sort out. You will also need your parents' bank statements for the years in question to see what payments have been made.

One thing that I noticed was that your dad seems to be getting Carer's Allowance whilst receiving contribution based ESA. CA and contribution based ESA are overlapping benefits and cannot be paid together. He may have been moved to income based ESA so that he could receive CA. The CA amount would have been used as income but then a Carer's Premium added to his ESA - this can only be done if the claim is income based.

Mmmm all very strange - go and get some professional help unless someone like Epitome can unravel it.

OK checking that out now to see if it stopped but parents adamant they are/were still getting it.

I'll try and get actual dates written down and amounts if possible.

It's a pointless exercise trying to see the CAB around here. They limit appointment times and have a waiting list of over 2 months to see anyone.

They do have a 'walk in' surgery once a week for 2 hours but unless you get there a good hour early then you have no chance of being seen.