Apcoa train station PCN for season ticket holder - sanity check

trionic

Apcoa managed train station car park in Gloucestershire. A valid season ticket is held but on the day was not displayed. The vehicle was parked at 0645 on Thursday March 19th. Upon return to the vehicle at about 1715, a windscreen PCN was found.

Apcoa are a BPA member.

My understanding from the newbie's thread (in particular the excellent flowchart) is that my first step is to do nothing until the NTK arrives.

After that, use the relevant letter template to appeal the PCN and proceed based on the results of that appeal.

Have I got this correct so far?

Thanks to all the generous folk on here who have offered so much good advice.

stator

Who issues the season ticket? APCOA?

ampersand

Looks like it's apcoa.
https://fgw.apcoa.co.uk/season_tickets/Location.aspx?PL=992

They'll probably try this as breach:
'Before leaving your vehicle please ensure it is securely locked at[sic] that your permit is prominently displayed'
#
Pop Apcoa +railway into the Search this Forum box. Loads of current Threads/info there.

trionic

Yes, the season ticket is issued by Apcoa.

I searched for "apcoa season ticket" which returned fifteen results, none of which contained a run through of this process to completion.

My concern is that the season ticket is significant and knocks out the usual defences in this case. If it doesn't then I'll just follow the process as explained in the many threads.

stator

Follow the usual process. There are tonnes of threads for similar matters, people who have disabled badges but don't display them, people who have residents permits but don't display them, so I guess season ticket not displayed is the same. I don't know if APCOA take people to court or not

HO87

APCOA issue PCN's that make no mention of railway byelaws but are otherwise entirely ambiguous as to their legal basis. It is reasonably clear that their basis is actually breach of contract.

They also make reference to obtaining keeper details from DVLA at the 28 day mark in order to pursue the debt although there is no overt reference to the Protection of Freedoms Act. We know that APCOA withdrew from pursuing cases using POFA some time ago but they still like to trail their coattails. Dropping POFA means that they are not obliged to stick to POFA deadlines or NtD/NtK requirements.

Their issue is going to be that having paid for the season ticket they have suffered no loss - the parking is paid for. I have just assisted in a case not entirely a million miles away from this where parking had been prepaid but the printout had slipped out of view. APCOA cancelled the PCN with a reasonably robust appeal.

The appeal went as follows (adapted for your circumstances):

[FONT=&quot]APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wellington House[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4-10 Cowley Road[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]UXBRIDGE[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Middlesex[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]UB8 2XW[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Dear Sirs[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Re: PCN No. XZXZXZXZXZ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

I refer to the above matter and your Notice to [FONT=&quot]Keep[/FONT]er, dated <insert date> and wish to make the following representation.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the avoidance of doubt I am the registered keeper of the vehicle concerned.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Whilst I am more than prepared to take issue point by point with regard to the use of deliberately ambiguous language and unqualified demands and assertions in your notice I have no desire to waste either your time or mine.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Let me make this as clear as possible: I have secured and in my possession valid documentary evidence supplied by you (<insert details of season ticket>) and have available evidence that the vehicle was parked at and in accordance with your directions that will enable me to refute your allegation. I expressly deny that any debt exists [FONT=&quot]and[/FONT], specifically, [FONT=&quot]that[/FONT] any debt is owed to you in relation to this incident or that I owe [FONT=&quot]you anything[/FONT].

Furthermore, you know or should have known that your allegation is groundless, you have suffered no loss and you have no case.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] Therefore, [FONT=&quot]w[/FONT][/FONT]ith the intention of ensuring that this matter is resolved as speedily as possible and with the least expense to the parties concerned I invite you to withdraw this specious notice forthwith.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you reject the above then please supply a POPLA code so that I may refer the matter to them without further delay.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The above notwithstanding, y[/FONT]ou should now regard yourselves as being on notice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yours faithfully

[FONT=&quot]trionic[/FONT][/FONT]

Give that a try.

Coupon-mad

trionic wrote: »

Yes, the season ticket is issued by Apcoa.

I searched for "apcoa season ticket" which returned fifteen results, none of which contained a run through of this process to completion.

My concern is that the season ticket is significant and knocks out the usual defences in this case. If it doesn't then I'll just follow the process as explained in the many threads.

Search just for 'APCOA train station' and you would find loads of threads far more relevant (the season ticket is utterly irrelevant to POPLA, because ''on the day was not displayed.''). Don't even search for season ticket as a keyword and don't use the search box top right, that searches the entire MSE site!

Use 'search this forum' - it's a small search drop-down menu next to 'forum tools' on the right above the top thread, level with the blue 'new thread' button. Pop in 'APCOA train station' and change the default to 'show posts' (not show threads). Loads and loads of cases, all resolved by winning at POPLA.

The_Deep

Having read the T & C on the on line application for a parking season ticket

https://fgw.apcoa.co.uk/season_tickets_custom_pages/apcoa_fgw_terms_and_conditons.aspx

I can see no mention of penalties.

I do find it disturbing that they want £40 administrative charge for a refund, and that they will only refund for whole months.

This seems to me to be verging on an unfair term in a consumer contract.

trionic

Thank you to everyone for their advice

The NTK arrived at the postal address of the registered keeper and in response I will send them HO87's letter. I will update this thread with all progress.

Thanks again

trionic

I have received from APCOA a response to my appeal letter (based on HO87's).

The text:

Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issues by us on 18/03/2015. Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you, we must advise that your appeal has not been successful on this occasion.

We would like to take this opportunity to advise you that although you may have purchased a valid permit this is only considered valid if it is clearly displayed in the vehicle for the parking attendant to inspect. Should it be face down or not displayed the attendant has no way of checking the details of the permit and as such has no choice other than issue a notice. As the permit was not displayed as can be seen in the image below the vehicle is considered to be parked in contravention.

[Follows four images of the vehicle: registration plate, location within the car park, windscreen and dashboard before issue of PCN (showing no permit on the dashboard) and after PCN issue.]

The terms and conditions of the permit clearly state that it should be displayed at all times:

[A screen grab of the "Online Permit Terms and Conditions"]
...The car park permit (or temporary 7 day permit must be clearly displayed in the vehicle

Taking into consideration the above mentioned information we are satisfied that the above notice was correctly issued and as such we must advise you that your appeal has been rejected.

You now have a number of options:

1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the price of £100.00. You can pay by the following methods; <snip>
2. Make an appeal to POPLA The Independent Appeals Service by completing the accompanying form. Your POPLA Verification Code is <snip>
3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedured and may proceed with Court action against you.

Yours Faithfully,

APCOA Appeals Department

So now I complete the POPLA appeals form. My appeal must be based on one of the following (quoted from the POPLA form):

1. The vehicle was not improperly parked
2. The parking charged ticket exceed the relevant amount
3. The vehicle was stolen
4. I am not liable for the parking charge

As for option 4, the accompanying text states that:

...the fact that you do not think that you should have to pay the parking charge or the fact that you had paid to park (even if, for example, the voucher was not clearly displayed) are not valid grounds of appeal.

What are the grounds on which I should appeal the PCN? I am at a loss.

hoohoo

You can appeal for any reason. The 'reasons' APCOA give are just a bluff.

You main ground is the the NTK was not compliant so as keeper you are not liable

Add in others if you wish