Help - PCN from Wing in Barnet

nigelbb

Here are the relevant paragraphs from POFA 2012:-

3 (1) In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than:
(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.
(2) In sub-paragraph (1)(b):
“parking place” has the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984;
“traffic authority” means each of the following:
(a) the Secretary of State;
(b) the Welsh Ministers;
(c)Transport for London;
(d) the Common Council of the City of London; (e) the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;
(f) a parish or community council;
(g) the Council of the Isles of Scilly.

enfield_freddy

un simplified and accurate , OP make a call to the council NOT PARKING DEPARTMENT.

HO87

The issue we have encountered on several occasions with Wing Parking is that almost exclusively the land on which they operate is nominally in the hands of an arm's-length company. So, either a housing association or a housing company usually linked to a London Borough or a sports/recreation arm's-length company. In a number of cases the arm's-length companies have asserted that they were the landlords and so have ducked, to some degree, the issue of "relevant land" because they are not the traffic authority even if they are connected with it through the Borough's significant interest.

That said, in more than one case I have been personally involved in pressing the arm's-length companies has resulted in all manner of obfuscation and misdirection to avoid acknowledging the fact that Wing's tickets - which are always dressed up using the relevant Borough crest (regardless of their client being the housing company or whatever) - were simply based in contract law.

Attempts at identifying the relevant proprietor of some of the land has previously led into areas of considerable doubt because of the way that Boroughs have parcelled up the car parks. In other words I've never been able to nail ownership down in the cases I've looked at. My suspicion is that the traffic authority - in the shape of the relevant Borough - never fully relinquishes ownership.

CoCo_N

So I've been on phone to the council and have been passed around from department to department. Nobody I have spoken to gave me much confidence that they knew what they were talking about. The last chap I spoke to who sounded a little more clued up, said that as our apartments are owned by the council, it is effectively on private land, and that the land is held for 'social housing purposes'. However, it permits any member of the public who have no interest in the land to use it within legal boundaries. So in a sense, it's public too according to him.

There's not much transparency here.

What am I chances at this point? I already have to of these tickets to combat, and the stress levels are steadily climbing

CoCo_N

Sent a response to the email I received from Wing rejecting my first appeal.
I replied stating that this was my stage 2 appeal and that I had nothing further to add and that I should be given a POPLA verification code.
Received this response:

Good morning

Although you have requested a POPLA Verification Code, we are unable to issue such a code until the very end of the original, existing appeals process. If you do not utilise the full, existing appeals process, then you cannot refer your case to POPLA. If you require more information about how POPLA operates, you can contact them directly on 0845 207 7700 or online at https://www.popla.org.uk

Kind regards
Claire
Wing Parking Ltd

What a runaround! How can I proceed without a code? As far as I'm concerned they've rejected my stage 2 and should now issue a code right? I have complained to the borough but keep getting told that they do not deal with parking tickets and matters should be dealt with directly with Wing. I'm tempted to forward all corresponcence to the BPA, but from what I've been reading on other forums, I'm likely to be told that Wing are acting appropriately. Any advice appreciated

ManxRed

forward that letter, along with your previous appeal(s) to Steve Clarke at the BPA (do a search on here for his email address) and tell him you're making a formal complaint against a BPA member refusing to follow the Code of Practice and you want him to investigate.

CoCo_N

Finally got a response today after appealing to POPLA.
Result posted here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71207598#Comment_71207598

Best of luck to anyone else dealing with these muppets. I hope you get a similar result!;)