Meranti vs Sapele wood windows

ryder72

Thanks guys. Some answers-

This is a timber framed house with the following constructions inside out - Double layer Fermacell, diffusion breathable membrane, 180mm glulam studs with 180mm mineral wool insulation, 50mm wood fibre board and then render. Total wall thickness is 270mm with u value of 0.16.

The windows are factory fitted almost flush to the external walls to give a substantial internal ledge. So there isnt an external cill as such (its about 30mm overhanging the render). The frame itself is fixed to the studs. Not sure about sealing. Mental note to get more detail.

They are pretty comfortable that the alu capping prevents water ingress to the frame and therefore stagnation but I need to check this carefully.

Windows are internal opening only. They dont offer alu capped on outside opening windows and I dont actually mind internal opening windows.

Triple glazing is the norm in northern Europe and apparently they are with triple glazing now where we are with double glazing.

leveller2911

ryder72 wrote: »

Thanks guys. Some answers-

Windows are internal opening only. They dont offer alu capped on outside opening windows and I dont actually mind internal opening windows.

Triple glazing is the norm in northern Europe and apparently they are with triple glazing now where we are with double glazing.

Their Winters are a lot colder than ours...........:D

Is it a Huf Haus?

Furts

ryder72 wrote: »

Thanks guys. Some answers-

This is a timber framed house with the following constructions inside out - Double layer Fermacell, diffusion breathable membrane, 180mm glulam studs with 180mm mineral wool insulation, 50mm wood fibre board and then render. Total wall thickness is 270mm with u value of 0.16.

The windows are factory fitted almost flush to the external walls to give a substantial internal ledge. So there isnt an external cill as such (its about 30mm overhanging the render). The frame itself is fixed to the studs. Not sure about sealing. Mental note to get more detail.

My apologies if I sound negative, but I would never approve, or sanction, your timber frame detail. As a durability, or long term construction detail, it is an accident waiting to happen.

The UK went through a timber frame disaster period from circa 1983 and it took over a decade for the industry to get its act in order. (Ref World in Action and the expose on Barratts)

The foolish folk in New Zealand and elsewhere (Canada and British Columbia IIRR) did not learn from our mistakes and then had to learn the mistakes for themselves. A catalogue of errors has resulted in potentially thousands of defective and potentially un-mortgagable homes. (It has been largely hushed up) Unfortunately your proposal leans towards, or falls bang into, this category.

Even your cill detail does not follow the standard details in NHBC Standards. That is not to say it cannot be built, for I have not seen working details. Plus, in fairness I may have misunderstood the exact detail. However, from your description I am very wary.

Be wary of any timber frame manufacturer, and installation team, be they UK or German. There is a myriad of dodgy building occuring.

Sorry if this has dented your enthusiasm.

Furts

leveller2911 wrote: »

Their Winters are a lot colder than ours...........:D

Is it a Huf Haus?

Oh dear, tread carefully here if my memory serves me correctly. In fairness it may not!

ryder72

Its Meisterstueck a German housebuilder been going for 110 years.

I have looked at English timber frame builders and not one has given me any confidence. I have found an Irish company which I have found to be excellent but their standard walls are 400mm deep albeit Passiv Haus standard.

The general standard of house building using conventional methods to be is about at appealing as Ebola - quite frankly just plain shoddy with no attention paid to getting the fabric of the building airtight so timber appeals to me.

This company has come up with a very competitive price and comparing the shell solution from the Germans to the erected timber frame, comparable glazing from Internorm, flat roofing etc brings the price of the German solution within 5% of the Irish company and for that price difference I simply cannot ignore the quality and attention to detail that Meisterstuck offer.

In addition to this is a 30 year structural warranty, 5 year overall warranty on everything else they offer and a 5 day turnaround from slab to watertight shell rendered on the outside with doors and windows fitted and roofing done.

Huf Haus is the Rolls Royce of the German solutions and very expensive plus they build only post and beam houses which I dont particularly like unless its in the right setting.

leveller2911

Furts wrote: »

Oh dear, tread carefully here if my memory serves me correctly. In fairness it may not!

TBF Furts, I've only heard positive things about Huff Haus and Scadia Hus (similar type of build). In the past there has been problems with timber framed houses but many Oak TFB have stood for centuries and not forgetting the old style "colt" bungalows/houses that have stood for nearly 100 years without problems.. Sill/Cill details and weathering are the biggest priority for timber framing..

I'm actually more worried about the NHBC than I am about timber framed construction.

If I had the money I would make an Oak timber framed Barn..........Its the cost of the land thats the problem ........

ryder72

I agree with leveller2911 on that. NHBC is about as useful as a snooze button on a fire alarm.

I have had to call them out on a new build where the bay window was out of square. The left window was 15cm smaller than right (only came to light while measuring for blinds) and NHBC said that was acceptable as long as performance was not compromised.

Another reason the German houses appeal are their standard specification-

Air tightness - design 0.65 ACH per hour. Achieve between 0.5-0.9 on all builds. Building regs 10

Wall u values - 0.16 upgradeable to 0.09. Building regs 0.3

Glass u values - 0.7 upgradeable to 0.55. Building regs 2.0

Ceiling u values - 0.1. Building regs 0.2

SAP rating guaranteed A.

Cost is not much more than a block built with render and about the same as timber framed. Dont even get me started on this SIP scam.

Furts

leveller2911 wrote: »

TBF Furts, I've only heard positive things about Huff Haus and Scadia Hus (similar type of build). In the past there has been problems with timber framed houses but many Oak TFB have stood for centuries and not forgetting the old style "colt" bungalows/houses that have stood for nearly 100 years without problems.. Sill/Cill details and weathering are the biggest priority for timber framing..

I'm actually more worried about the NHBC than I am about timber framed construction.

If I had the money I would make an Oak timber framed Barn..........Its the cost of the land thats the problem ........

I second this. Traditional oak, built in the traditional manner is fine. The problem area is timber frame UK housing of the last 40 years which is entirely different.

NHBC have their faults and that is putting it mildly. However, their Technical Standards, and Publications Department, set the standards that others have always had to match. This has been the case for the last 25+ years.

The NHBC problem is that: 1) they are reactive - hence they act only once problems have surfaced

2) the general public do not understand the role of NHBC - they are a trade based insurance company working for their clients, the builders, and not the consumer. Hence, in effect, they can be said to be working against the consumer, in order to protect the builder. Like it or not, this is the role that they have been set up to perform.

3) all new home purchasers should have a fully detailed all encompassing survey on their new home before parting with their money. However this is almost unheard of because new home purchasers are either naive, or they are unwilling to meet the costs of such a survey.

Furts

ryder72 wrote: »

Its Meisterstueck a German housebuilder been going for 110 years.

I have looked at English timber frame builders and not one has given me any confidence. I have found an Irish company which I have found to be excellent but their standard walls are 400mm deep albeit Passiv Haus standard.

The general standard of house building using conventional methods to be is about at appealing as Ebola - quite frankly just plain shoddy with no attention paid to getting the fabric of the building airtight so timber appeals to me.

This company has come up with a very competitive price and comparing the shell solution from the Germans to the erected timber frame, comparable glazing from Internorm, flat roofing etc brings the price of the German solution within 5% of the Irish company and for that price difference I simply cannot ignore the quality and attention to detail that Meisterstuck offer.

In addition to this is a 30 year structural warranty, 5 year overall warranty on everything else they offer and a 5 day turnaround from slab to watertight shell rendered on the outside with doors and windows fitted and roofing done.

Sorry ryder72 I agree with your comments about workmanship, but suggest you are going about things in the wrong way. That said, you have probably placed the order so I wish you well.

But in the interests of a balanced argument I have given you enough clues in my post to let you know that I do know about timber frame housing!

I still stand by my statement that your design is flawed and having read this post I am even more concerned. But again, I wish you well.

ryder72

Yes I found out about the workings of the NHBC - too late. Its pretty ridiculous. Their paymasters are the construction business and their largest payers are the worst builders. No one in their right mind should be designing a system that is geared towards not speaking up against the worst offenders.

Ultimately, regardless of how good their intentions are, their 'supposed' beneficiaries are the biggest losers.

Believe it on not, I got a builder mate of mine to snag the build for me before exchanging contracts on that house and he laid into the site manager for 5 hours before they asked for an additional 2 weeks to exchange contracts in order to rectify defects. These included a staircase with uneven height across the length of the stairwell, missing supports on chimney, insufficient loft insulation. And apparently the NHBC site inspector (or something like that) had inspected that particular house.