ESA Deprivation of capital -Terminally Ill

Mojisola

benidorm59 wrote: »

• Other disregards include:
  the value of a pre-paid funeral plan

AIUI, this refers to the monetary value of a funeral plan that you already have before a financial assessment is made, not the purchase of a plan after you are receiving means tested benefits.

Sue - get everyone you can involved - it's ridiculous that you can't pay for your funeral but, as someone above said, you would be allowed to spend money on a holiday.

Do get the d1500 form filled in and claim what you're entitled to in the meantime.

pmlindyloo

That entitledto link also says

You will not be considered to have deprived yourself of capital if you have paid off debts or used money on ‘reasonable’ spending on goods and services.


This contradicts current legislation - see my previous link of Decision Maker's Guide - and is more in line with UC legislation.

Anyway, enough!

I sincerely hope that the Decision Maker adopts a sensible approach to the OP's situation.

benniebert

pmlindyloo wrote: »

In the Universal Credits legislation it says:

(2) A person is not to be treated as depriving themselves of capital if the person disposes of it
for the purposes of—
(a) reducing or paying a debt owed by the person; or
(b) purchasing goods or services if the expenditure was reasonable in the circumstances of
the person’s case.


Seems like (b) would certainly cover your situation.

Can't recall that there is a similar clause in the current ESA regs. Think not.

Maybe your MP could argue that it would be correct to apply this to you as the intention seems clear from the legislation.

Here's the link:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/pdfs/uksi_20130376_en.pdf

I don't think that you can pick and choose what rules/regulations apply by quoting different benefits.
As an example. If you are on PC you ARE ALLOWED to pay off your mortgage to reduce your capital to enable the maximum benefit to be awarded. Yet, for ESA it is clear that doing the same would be treated as deprivation. Also for people over 63 they have the choice of PC or Income based ESA, do I take it that they can choose which offers them the best way of getting rid of capital to maximise their benefits?
Finally, if the ESA rules should indeed follow those for UC, then those with capital or excess income should be allowed to pay off their credit cards/mortgage and other high interest accounts? That is wide open to abuse and quite honestly, the Deprivation rules will have lost all its teeth and bite!

NYM

benniebert wrote: »

I don't think that you can pick and choose what rules/regulations apply by quoting different benefits.
As an example. If you are on PC you ARE ALLOWED to pay off your mortgage to reduce your capital to enable the maximum benefit to be awarded. Yet, for ESA it is clear that doing the same would be treated as deprivation. Also for people over 63 they have the choice of PC or Income based ESA, do I take it that they can choose which offers them the best way of getting rid of capital to maximise their benefits?
Finally, if the ESA rules should indeed follow those for UC, then those with capital or excess income should be allowed to pay off their credit cards/mortgage and other high interest accounts? That is wide open to abuse and quite honestly, the Deprivation rules will have lost all its teeth and bite!

This thread is about someone that is terminally ill and seeking advice on possible solutions regarding funding their own funeral.

Let's not turn this particular thread into a debate.

benniebert

NYM wrote: »

This thread is about someone that is terminally ill and seeking advice on possible solutions regarding funding their own funeral.

Let's not turn this particular thread into a debate.

I'm not. The previous poster suggested that the UC rules on deprivation should apply to other benefits which I don't agree with - that's all.
And it's not about funding their own funeral but trying to find a way round the deprivation rules when paying for that funeral so that they can maximise their benefit entitlement.


The ESA rules are the ESA rules. Whether the UC are more favourable is here nor there. I quoted an example of this when looking at PC & ESA. PC is a lot more favourable than ESA is. And some have the option of which one to claim to give them the best result.


So the original poster is tied by the ESA statute/rules/regulations and case law, not those of a totally different benefit.

Indie_Kid

I was half expecting this thread to be about something completely different. I honestly don't understand why the DWP have said what they did. My Granddad died last year and didn't have a funeral plan in place (he had a policy or something years ago and when he first became ill, it was cashed out then) and the money had to be found to pay for a funeral.

In the end, the money had to be borrowed.

I do hope that someone sees common sense here.

sue999

im happy to learn from opinions and appreciate the input- just received the cheque this morning-so will notify DWP first thing monday.

Maybe DWP could make the rules clearer re ESA and actually put a line of legislature in regarding funerals can be paid from unexpected windfall whilst ESA is already in existence? it was only by chance i received this money whilst tidying up my financial affairs-Lloyds could have said no and argued the points with me.

Indie_Kid

Can I suggest that with the DWP's decision, you get it in writing? I've never come across this, but I won't be that surprised if some people are told one thing by one person at the DWP and are then told something completely different.

At least if you have to appeal, you can then say "I've got it in writing", instead of "but so-and-so said this".

sue999

Yes- i will ask for it in writing- when the lady spoke to me on both occasions she reminded me the phone call was being recorded. I told her im glad it was. I hope they can make the recording available to me or the journo at DNS? especially if they maintain their stance as the situation progresses?

dippy3103

Sue,
You need to get the formal decision ASAP and then appeal it - it's ridiculously harsh. I suggest you involve your MP too.
Have you made the payment yet?
You sound like such a brave, dignified lady with immense integrity. Much respect & kind thoughts for you xx