Serving a Section 21? Unprotected deposit taken before 2007

Brighty

Hello all

I am seeking possession of one of our rental properties as we are moving back to the area and need the house back to live in ourselves.

AST has long since moved onto a periodic tenancy.

Therefore I intended to serve a section 21(4) notice requesting possession after 31st July.

However, I have read that a section 21 is invalid if the deposit is not protected.

As the original AST started way back in 2001 and turned periodic later that year, when there was no requirement to protect deposits, it was obviously not protected by my parents (who we inherited the property from in 2012).


Does this still mean a S21 is invalid in this case? Or are we all ok?

I've already told the tenants in person and they are apparently starting to look for somewhere else, but I want to be legally prepared if they decide not to leave end of July.


Also, any places to download free S21(4) templates from that anyone recommends?


Thanks


Brighty

franklee

Did it go periodic before 6 April 2007? That's the date when the deposit regs came in.

G_M

See

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

and

* Deposits (payment, protection and return)

45002

Brighty wrote:

Hello all

I am seeking possession of one of our rental properties as we are moving back to the area and need the house back to live in ourselves.

AST has long since moved onto a periodic tenancy.

Therefore I intended to serve a section 21(4) notice requesting possession after 31st July.

However, I have read that a section 21 is invalid if the deposit is not protected.

As the original AST started way back in 2001 and turned periodic later that year, when there was no requirement to protect deposits, it was obviously not protected by my parents (who we inherited the property from in 2012).


Does this still mean a S21 is invalid in this case? Or are we all ok?

I've already told the tenants in person and they are apparently starting to look for somewhere else, but I want to be legally prepared if they decide not to leave end of July.


Also, any places to download free S21(4) templates from that anyone recommends?


Thanks


Brighty

Hello Brighty

You say AST started back in 2001 .

Do you know the date the tenants 1st moved in and not a date on a AST agreement !




.....

G_M

45002 wrote: »

Hello Brighty

You say AST started back in 2001 .

Do you know the date the tenants 1st moved in and not a date on a AST agreement !

.....

I'm bemused by the question. Maybe missing something.

The move-in date may have pre-dated the AST but

* that won't affect the deposit question in this case
* whilst it might mean the tenancy was originally not an AST (a different issue), the signing of the AST would have subsumed that tenancy (I think).

45002

G_M wrote:

I'm bemused by the question. Maybe missing something.

The move-in date may have pre-dated the AST but

* that won't affect the deposit question in this case
* whilst it might mean the tenancy was originally not an AST (a different issue), the signing of the AST would have subsumed that tenancy (I think).

I'm bemused by your reply as OP has not yet replied to the question I simple asked

For all we know tenants could have moved in before 1997 or 1987 ?

Signing a AST would Not make previous tenancy invalid if it was say a Assured tenancy (no s20 issued at start of T) or even a Regulated Tenancy .

It's a common question I ask on LLz and CAG, when I see words "inherited the property" or a long tenancy going back to 2001 or even further back than that.

Brighty

Hi all


The only AST I have a copy of is dated 1st Jan 2001.


There is a possibility, but unlikely, that there was a previous AST, but that would have been in early to mid 2000 at the earliest (I got together with my now wife if Feb 2000, and I can remember being with her when they moved in).


Therefore I'm 90% sure the 1st Jan 2001 AST is when they moved in


Rather worryingly, google led me here
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2013/06/17/new-case-on-tenancy-deposits-received-before-april/
and here
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2014/12/18/charalambou-v-ng-another-worrying-tenancy-deposit-case-on-old-deposits/


Brighty

45002

Brighty wrote:

Hi all


The only AST I have a copy of is dated 1st Jan 2001.


There is a possibility, but unlikely, that there was a previous AST, but that would have been in early to mid 2000 at the earliest (I got together with my now wife if Feb 2000, and I can remember being with her when they moved in).


Therefore I'm 90% sure the 1st Jan 2001 AST is when they moved in


Rather worryingly, google led me here
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2013/06/17/new-case-on-tenancy-deposits-received-before-april/
and here
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2014/12/18/charalambou-v-ng-another-worrying-tenancy-deposit-case-on-old-deposits/


Brighty

That's Fair enough about moving in date, Thanks.

laidbackgjr

Would the change of landlord upon inheriting the house not be deemed a new tenancy and the deposit would have needed protecting at this point?

Brighty

laidbackgjr wrote: »

Would the change of landlord upon inheriting the house not be deemed a new tenancy and the deposit would have needed protecting at this point?

Not according to the advice I received here at the time
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4163711=

Pixie5740

No, a change of landlord doesn't start a brand new tenancy.

Your Section 21 would be valid if you returned the full deposit before issuing the Section 21. Given the tenants have been living there since 2001 that a lot of fair wear and tear which you're not allowed to deduct from the deposit anyway.