Should I appeal to POPLA? Advice needed

sunrise99

Hi All,

I received a Parking Charge Notice for around 3 weeks back for 'not displaying a valid permit' by P4 parking. I have since appealed and they have denied it. I have couple of weeks to consider POPLA or just pay £60 at discounted rate. The story goes on like this ...

I live in the block of flats (rent a flat) which has allocated space for residents. When I moved in (around 6 months back), I was not given a permit by the letting agency as the previous tenant also didn't have one but was assured that there was a parking space assigned with this flat. I checked with concierge and confirmed this. I saw almost all vehicles with no permits so it didn't cause any concern.

Around Oct last year, the management company issued circulars to get vehicles registered at the concierge stating that they will issue new parking permits. I promptly got my vehicle registered in their register. In Nov/Dec another reminder was issued stating the last date for registration is end of Jan'15. I guess, prior to this they hadn't contracted with P4 parking. Anyway, since I had registered I didn't worry too much.

Earlier, you could park in any space but starting this year, the concierge (mgmt company) started sticking notes on vehicles if you've parked in someone else's 'allocated space'.

On the fateful friday evening, I saw someone else's car parked in my bay, so I parked in the adjacent bay. I was in a rush to catch a train later so thought it should be alright. I was away for a long weekend and when I was back I saw 2 notes stuck on the windscreen - One from the management company stating 'parked in someone else's bay' issued on Saturday and other (a ticket) from P4 parking issued on the following Monday.

Since the ticket spoke about displaying parking permit, I subsequently emailed the management company asking if they had issued parking permits. The answer was 'No' as they hadn't received details from all residents - I have this email as evidence.

I also appealed to P4 parking explaining the situation (unfortunately admitting that I had parked in the adjacent bay); also gave them copy of my train tickets. But their response spoke only about 'not displaying valid permit'; nothing about parking in other bay. They have attached photos of my vehicle with the two notes mentioned above and a post which says its a private land and valid permit should be displayed.

Even now I don't have any permit and most/all the vehicles I see have no permits displayed.

As evidence, I have 2 circulars issued by management company and email response dated last week stating that they have not issued new parking permits. Given this, is it sufficient to appeal to POPLA? Other ground of appeal may be disproportionate charges for any loses (there was no loss as such I think!)?

OR - given I have admitted I have parked in someone else's bay and the notice from the management company states that as well, it's of no use? But the ticket doesn't mention this as the cause nor does P4 parking's response - it mentions only about not displaying valid permit.

I'm in two minds and would really appreciate honest prompt advice. Thanks!

Grimble

Read the Newbies thread, draft an appeal and post up here for experts to look at. You need to check your lease to see what it says about parking, your lease trumps management companies and scammers.

The_Deep

Have I got this right, you parked in a neighbour's bay for the week end, so, where did your neighbour park?

My advice would be to offer to pay any losses incurred, but not to the PPC, but to the person whom you deprived if their parking space.

Fruitcake

Appeal to PoPLA, get this killed off and cost the parking company money. Meanwhile as already suggested, check your lease. If there is no mention of a parking permit why are you bothering to display one?
Does the lease say you have to park in a specified bay?
If the answers to the above questions are no, hand your permit back to the management association and tell them you are not playing their game of putting money in a parking scammers pocket and are removing any implied right of access to your car. Tell them if you get any more tickets you will consider it to be trespass on your property.
Your lease trumps the MA and PPC's made up rules.

The_Deep

... hand your permit back to the management association and tell them you are not playing their game of putting money in a parking scammers pocket and are removing any implied right of access to your car. Tell them if you get any more tickets you will consider it to be trespass on your property.

Hang on Fruitcake, the OP is a tenant. The action you advocate is more appropriate for his landlord.

If a tenant of mine started laying down the law like this to a MA whom I had voted to employ, I should get very cross indeed with aforesaid tenant, especially if that tenant was parking in another resident's space.

Fruitcake

The_Deep wrote: »

hand your permit back to the management association and tell them you are not playing their game of putting money in a parking scammers pocket and are removing any implied right of access to your car. Tell them if you get any more tickets you will consider it to be trespass on your property.

Hang on Fruitcake, the OP is a tenant. The action you advocate is more appropriate for his landlord. If a tenant of mine started laying down the law like this to a MA whom I Had voted to employ, I should get very cross indeed with aforesaid tenant.

Surely that depends on the terms of the lease? If there is no mention of a parking permit and the tenants set up a MA, then the action I suggest would be appropriate. A landlord could indeed employ a MA but a change in the lease would have to be issued to the tenant. The tenant would then have the option of agreeing to the change to the rental terms, or move elsewhere.
There is no mention here that the landlord knows anything about this situation.


Would you employ a private parking company, either directly or through a MA approved/appointed by you to scam your tenants? If you did, as the principle would you be surprised if your tenants complained about the actions of the PPC?

Coupon-mad

I'm in two minds

You are in 2 minds about appealing to POPLA even though ALL permit cases are won if you say 'no GPEOL' like in the examples given in post #3 of the Newbies thread 'How to win at POPLA'?

What's not to like?

The_Deep

There is no mention here that the landlord knows anything about this situation.

Which is precisely my point. The course of action which you advise could well see the OP in trouble with his landlord. Very recently, unknown to me, one of my tenants got very stroppy with the MA for carrying out work, (tree pruning), which I had approved. The MA complained to me of his "robust" telephone calls.

I warned the tenant that any contact with the MA, whom I voted to appoint at the AGM, must be through me. The tenant has no right whatsoever to speak as you suggest to the MA, especially if his/her landlord owns part of the freehold.

And yes, leaseholders often appoint PPCs, especially where there are problem tenants. They do not appoint them to scam their tenants, but to try to curb their anti-social tendencies.

Parking in a neighbour's space, and thus depriving him/her of a parking space for several days, is, in my opinion, anti-social behaviour.

People here are quick condemn disabled space abusers, in my opinion this is just as bad. I would not lift a finger to help the OP.

Fruitcake

The_Deep wrote: »

There is no mention here that the landlord knows anything about this situation.

Which is precisely my point. The course of action which you advise could well see the OP in trouble with his landlord. Very recently, unknown to me, one of my tenants got very stroppy with the MA for carrying out work, (tree pruning), which I had approved. The MA complained to me of his "robust" telephone calls.

I warned the tenant that any contact with the MA, whom I voted to appoint at the AGM, must be through me. The tenant has no right whatsoever to speak as you suggest to the MA, especially if his/her landlord owns part of the freehold.

And yes, leaseholders often appoint PPCs, especially where there are problem tenants. They do not appoint them to scam their tenants, but to try to curb their anti-social tendencies.

Parking in a neighbour's space, and thus depriving him/her of a parking space for several days, is, in my opinion, anti-social behaviour.

People here are quick condemn disabled space abusers, in my opinion this is just as bad. I would not lift a finger to help the OP.

Having reread the original post I was mistaken in thinking that the OP has a permit.
The OP is being penalised by the PPC because someone else parked in his/her space forcing the OP to park in an adjacent space. The PCN he/she has received is for not displaying a permit, not for parking in the wrong space. The MA says permits have not yet been issued.


This sounds like a scam to me.

The_Deep

Whatever, and nobody forced him to trespass.

Before he starts shouting his mouth off to the MA as you suggest, he needs to run this past his landlord. The MA has noted that his car was parked where it should not have been parked and the fact that someone else was parked in his space is no excuse for his actions.

It may well be that his landlord is prepared to take his side with the MA, but it may also be that the OP is a troublemaker whom the landlord would like rid of.

What I do know is that, if he were to take your advice, he could well end up homeless. You need to be very careful when offering advice to other peoples' tenants.

Fruitcake

I bow to your greater experience as a landlord.


However, the MA said the OP must display a permit but has not issued said permit. They have however employed a PPC to ticket cars not displaying permits. This sounds like a scam to me.
The MA has introduced a no win situation. The OP cannot park anywhere, even in his/her own space, without getting a PCN because of the actions of the MA.


I therefore amend my advice as you suggest and the OP should take this matter up with the landlord, as well as asking what they should do if they cannot park in the space they pay for.