Budget 2015 - A budget of no consequence.

padington

Generali wrote: »

My take on Government spending is that the poor do best of all from a better economy: the poorest in the UK do much better than those in the middle in most countries of the world. For example, the bottom 10% in the UK earn about £8,600. That's more than double the median income in China for example.

Again, not if you take into consideration house prices and higher rents. Many oroperty owners own places even a PM's salary couldn't buy with a mortgage now in the South East, whilst renters face that gulf of distance to travel to lose the shackles of rent.

Graham_Devon

Interesting points on Newsnight last night.

The best one was how the coalition have managed to calculate that we are now just slightly better off than we were in 2010.

Their calculations include a rise in house prices (imputed rent) and also student loans to suggest we are better off. Indeed, the more loans people take out, the better off we actually become.

The resolution foundation (and others, inclduing the IFS) have provided their own data, looking at incomes. This does show were slightly better off than we were 5 years ago, but puts us well below levels of 2007, below levels of 2001 infact.

Theres something slightly weird about including student loans (never mind other loans) to suggest were better off. The correspondent was making the point that if you had 5 students in a house share, each with say, a 10k student loan, wealth of that household has increased by 50k. Therefore, they are better off. In these calculations, the household becomes worse off if they pay down their debts.

Another thing thats rather dodgy too - they have carried out something illegal for business accounting. Basically, they have sold assets, but kept them off the books. They then input them into the books the following year (or 2 or 3 years down the line) to bring the figures in line with what they want to achieve. So, asset sales that took place in 2013 have been held back and then inputted into the books to give their final year in parliament a financial boost.

Generali

padington wrote: »

Again, not if you take into consideration house prices and higher rents. Many oroperty owners own places even a PM's salary couldn't buy with a mortgage now in the South East, whilst renters face that gulf of distance to travel to lose the shackles of rent.

Figures are adjusted for PPP. How many places do you know where the bottom 10% buy a house?

WG0608

The Severn crossing toll reduction is well overdue. it costs me £65.50 every week!

padington

Generali wrote: »

Figures are adjusted for PPP. How many places do you know where the bottom 10% buy a house?

I've got no idea about the forumula that they use but I know for certain that owning property in London has never been harder in relation to wages as long as I've been alive than it has been in the last six months.

Also owning property in London has never been as profitable. Show me a formula that manages to explain this as less inequality in London or the rich carrying more of the load and I'll show you a broken formula.

antrobus

WG0608 wrote: »

The Severn crossing toll reduction is well overdue. it costs me £65.50 every week!

In 2018 the ownership of both the second crossing and the original bridge reverts to the government. I believe it was always the case that this change of ownership would have resulted in the tolls becoming outside the scope of VAT.

It seems that the UK government were of a mind to carry on collecting the full toll, but have now decided otherwise. But then Cardiff North is a marginal constituency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19967175

Edit: Wouldn't the TAG save you some money?

Loughton_Monkey

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Interesting points on Newsnight last night.

The best one was how the coalition have managed to calculate that we are now just slightly better off than we were in 2010....

Such rubbish is not interesting. It is the stuff of whingers and the oversimplistic press. You simply cannot measure this statistic properly.

Think about it!

Think about the word "we". If, over 5 years, we now have millions more employed, far fewer unemployed, very good GDP growth, low inflation, lower debt.... then it is ludicrous to say that we are not better off.

You (and the gutter press) are fixated with manufactured 'examples'. A theoretical burger flipper of 5 years ago compared with a different burger flipper just started out today for example. The original one was claiming child tax credit. This has been reduced. So now 'he' is worse off! For every one of these, we can find an alternative example to show a real increase.

It may surprise you, but no person (Fred) looks at his position 5 years ago, and compares it to a different person (Barny), 5 years younger, who is today in the same position as Fred was then. Fred looks at his own position now and compares it with his own position 5 years ago. Maybe he's had promotion, can work more hours, is a petrol head and saving shedloads on his high mileage. Doesn't save a penny, so doesn't notice or care about low interest rates on savings......

In other words, over the 5 years, Fred's own unique set of circumstances have changed considerably. Only Fred can decide whether or not he is 'better off' and 99 times out of 100 the main difference will be nothing to do with Osbourne's actions, but to do with the fact that Fred has got married. Had children. Moved house. Bought a new car. Or lost his job. Eldest child left home...... you name it.

So those that sit down and look at the relatively 'remarkable' recovery (albeit compared to a very articficial and dire base in 2010.... A far better recovery than has been seen in the rest of Europe.... and declare that we are worse off are complete nutters......

Or more likely whingers who themselves have 'missed out' because they never took opportunities. Never grasped the concept of personal responsibility and over-relied on 'benefits'. Who look at those with the nous to have saved, built up their own business, bettered themselves, and call them 'lucky'.

purch

WG0608 wrote: »

The Severn crossing toll reduction is well overdue. it costs me £65.50 every week!

Hundreds of people commute from South Wales to work in Bristol every day.

Then they have to pay £6.50 (£5 if you have a monthly TAG) for the privilege of going home every day.

Bizarre :eek:

Conrad

Graham_Devon wrote: »

This does show were slightly better off than we were 5 years ago, but puts us well below levels of 2007, below levels of 2001 infact.

I seem to be the only person that does not have this expectation I am somehow entitled to an increasing income, as if a birth right.


My earnings from the period you cite were merely an exception, based on everyone borrowing to fund growth. The Universe does not somehow owe more now than I am paid now, it's just the way of things.


Labours whole narrative is predicated on this notion we are naturally entitled to more than the Universe is producing for us despite us being amongst the best off on the planet. How greedy.