PCM appeal failed, now progressed on to IPC/IAS

IsseyMiyake

I have appealed to PCM and have received a rejection letter from them. And now I have to appeal to IPC/IAS.

Wanted help on what to do next?

I have included links to the letters I have had from them.

(Replace XX with tt at the beginning of the link 'http')

PCM Windscreen Ticket:-
hXXp://s284.photobucket.com/user/aminuk/media/PCM/A7F9E23C-D645-445F-9396-4309C24C6B25_zpst4mda4vh.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

PCM NtK:-
hXXp://s284.photobucket.com/user/aminuk/media/PCM/3E7226A6-CFFA-42A4-A548-B5CFC61D9BC7_zpshnlbiehd.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

PCM reply to appeal:-
hXXp://s284.photobucket.com/user/aminuk/media/PCM/B254AE6D-504F-42F1-A2B1-127B8766E423_zpspjtjr2r8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

-

This was their response to some of the points I mentioned in the first appeal.

1) The issue is not one of pre-estimation of loss but one of contractual agreement. A Parking Charge Notice was issued as the driver had clearly entered into a contractual obligation when choosing to park on the site; this is laid out and highlighted on the signage, clearly displayed at the site. The driver agreed to the charges, terms and conditions advertised and deemed them to be fair, otherwise they would not have parked on that particular site or would have chosen to park elsewhere. Cognisant of the signage and the contractual terms the driver parked in a manner whereby they agreed to pay the charges advertised, or had they not agreed they would have parked elsewhere. The contractual terms and conditions are clearly displayed and/or signposted on the land in question. If the driver did not read the signage outlining the contractual terms and conditions prevailing then that is solely their responsibility. You parked in a manner whereby you agreed to pay a charge and as such the PCN will not be rescinded.

2) Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd is confident that the signage is adequate and compliant in all areas and clearly states that contractual obligations you agree to by parking. PCM maintain that the terms of this contract are concise and clearly displayed throughout the parking area.

3) I assure you, we are well within our jurisdiction to issue a Parking Charge Notice as we are contracted by the landowner to manage the parking in this area.

Half_way

Ok, on what grounds was the parking charge issued?
was it your own flat/assigned space?
stand alone private car park?
supermarket?
business car park
do you normally display a permit to park there?
did you visit the business/facilities on site?

The_Deep

As they insist that this is a contractual agreement, what have they said about v.a.t. on the signs, NTD/NTK. If they have not accounted for it they may be trying to evade tax. More reading

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5087925=

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5033796=

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5195437

Dr._Shoe

Was it a carpark where parking is provided for free for compliant vehicles? In this case I cannot see how they can look for a contractual charge...

IsseyMiyake

Half_way wrote: »

Ok, on what grounds was the parking charge issued?
was it your own flat/assigned space?
stand alone private car park?
supermarket?
business car park
do you normally display a permit to park there?
did you visit the business/facilities on site?

The parking spaces in the area is for permit holders, but as I parked in a bay where it had 'V' from which I understood was a visitors bay and thought it required no permit. This is why I received the PCN.

If you click and have a look at the picture of the windscreen ticket don't forget to replace XX with tt at the beginning of the link, it says, 'Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCN permit'.

Thanks.

IsseyMiyake

Dr._Shoe wrote: »

Was it a carpark where parking is provided for free for compliant vehicles? In this case I cannot see how they can look for a contractual charge...

Hi there,

The car park is for permit holders only and there are visitor bays situated across the area. I genuinely thought, you required no permit if parked in a visitors bay.

Thanks

bazster

I wouldn't bother with the IAS, it's a sham. I'd just ignore everything unless I got a real Letter Before Claim (from the PPC themselves or their solicitors, ignore anything from a poxy debt collector) or real court papers.

The_Deep

The driver agreed to the charges, terms and conditions advertised and deemed them to be fair,

But they are not fair, they never are. Picture this, you are returning to your car in time, you slip, and twist your ankle. You hobble back to the car ten minutes late and cop a ticket for £100.

Did you really agree to that contract? Of course you didn't. And if the PPC were daft enough to take you to court, the judge would probably, nay, almost certainly, agree that it was an unfair contract.

You can appeal if you want, but expect a refusal, or you can ignore. Unless there was blatent disregard for the landowner's rights they are most unlikely to take the matter further.

IsseyMiyake

bazster wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with the IAS, it's a sham. I'd just ignore everything unless I got a real Letter Before Claim (from the PPC themselves or their solicitors, ignore anything from a poxy debt collector) or real court papers.

Thank you everyone for your responses.

So I just ignore everything? I still have a chance to appeal to the IAS, is there anything I can send to them and then after their final decision if it doesn't work in my favour I will start to ignore.

Thanks everyone.

bazster

It's your call, but there is nothing you can send to the IAS (that we know of) that they will not twist or ignore in order to manufacture a refusal.

Coupon-mad

You have no chance at IAS unless you can argue legal stuff and even then they'll favour the PPC. I wouldn't try, in your shoes I would let that 'chance'(!) go as it is arguably worse to have what could be painted as an 'ADR loss' behind you if PCM decide to try the odd small claim. Very rare from them, normally it goes to debt collector letters, then more of the same. See the Newbies thread post #4 about 'ignoring the debt collector' letters stage.

I beg for our sanity, please, no threads about Debt Recovery Plus letters. Please, pretty please no more posts about that letter chain. Search the forum and Google instead, no updates about each letter or we will self combust!