Sorting out TWO estates ...

joe_mcclaine

Hoping this isn't quite as complicated as it's feeling ...

Mum and Step-Dad owned their house outright and were Tenants in Common. Both had mirror wills leaving their share of the property (or equity) to the 5 kids / step-kids with the last to pass away leaving a bit to grandkids as well.

Step-Dad died in 2013 and we (executors) didn't do anything at that time. No probate (didn't think we had to as we weren't selling his share of the house) and didn't tell Land Registry (an oversight, I suppose).

Mum died this year.

Now we are looking to sell the house and deal with the estate.

No idea if we're on the right track.

Do we need probate for both, and to treat the proceeds of the sale of the house as separate estates? If so, how does that work when it comes to payments (in and out)?

What is the procedure for getting the property title sorted out? I know we have to eventually register it in the executors names before selling it. But is there a step before, in order to take Step-Dad off the title? Is this just a case of sending the death cert for Step-Dad to get the property legally held by Mum (Land Reg. have told me as it's one property then she would automatically be solely named?) and then send them the grant of probate for her to get it transferred to our names?

I'm basically sorting this myself as the other executor lives 30 miles away, trusts me to do it all and is happy to sign anything as and when needed.

Feel free to ask questions if I've not given enough info.

Cheers.

g6jns_2

joe_mcclaine wrote: »

Hoping this isn't quite as complicated as it's feeling ...

Mum and Step-Dad owned their house outright and were Tenants in Common. Both had mirror wills leaving their share of the property (or equity) to the 5 kids / step-kids with the last to pass away leaving a bit to grandkids as well.

Step-Dad died in 2013 and we (executors) didn't do anything at that time. No probate (didn't think we had to as we weren't selling his share of the house) and didn't tell Land Registry (an oversight, I suppose).

Mum died this year.

Now we are looking to sell the house and deal with the estate.

No idea if we're on the right track.

Do we need probate for both, and to treat the proceeds of the sale of the house as separate estates? If so, how does that work when it comes to payments (in and out)?

What is the procedure for getting the property title sorted out? I know we have to eventually register it in the executors names before selling it. But is there a step before, in order to take Step-Dad off the title? Is this just a case of sending the death cert for Step-Dad to get the property legally held by Mum (Land Reg. have told me as it's one property then she would automatically be solely named?) and then send them the grant of probate for her to get it transferred to our names?

I'm basically sorting this myself as the other executor lives 30 miles away, trusts me to do it all and is happy to sign anything as and when needed.

Feel free to ask questions if I've not given enough info.

Cheers.

You need to do probate for both estates either by wills or letters of administration. There is no need to register the changes as the solicitor handling the sale will be able to do that. Unless the estate's are liable to IHT then it should be easy to split the values between the estates.

SeniorSam

Hi Joe, are there Wills for both of them to prove their wishes? You will need to arrange Probate on the estates and the Wills are important, as it cannot simply be what you or other executors say.

You will be needing as solicitor to deal with the sale of the property, but that sale cannot be completed until the Probate is sorted. It is quite common to arrange for a sale subject to Probate and Estate Agents will be used to this, so have a chat with some and you will need possibly three written valuations. Will the estate values be exceeding the nil rate band levels of £325,000 each? The more information you give here the more help you can receive.

If you talk to a solicitor and explain that you and the other executors would like to deal with matters yourself, but you would be prepared to instruct the solicitor to deal with the conveyancing, you may be able to negotiate a 'nominal' fee for some verbal help with the Probate. Wortha a try.

Sam

joe_mcclaine

@g6jns
Does that mean , once we have grants of probate, we can put the house up for sale without the title being in our (executors') names or is this something the solicitor does prior to the sale?

@SeniorSam
Got wills for both (yesterday) and they say the same thing. Their share of the house split 5 ways between the kids with the last to die leaving a set sum to each of 12 grandkids as well.

The estates are both well below the £325,000 IHT level. £75k each, max.

Do we need to go as far as having separate bank accounts for each estate or will a final breakdown of what went where suffice? When the house is sold it's treated as one property resulting in one transaction? Do we have to physically split this, or just do it 'on paper'.

g6jns_2

joe_mcclaine wrote: »

@g6jns
Does that mean , once we have grants of probate, we can put the house up for sale without the title being in our (executors') names or is this something the solicitor does prior to the sale?

@SeniorSam
Got wills for both (yesterday) and they say the same thing. Their share of the house split 5 ways between the kids with the last to die leaving a set sum to each of 12 grandkids as well.

The estates are both well below the £325,000 IHT level. £75k each, max.

Do we need to go as far as having separate bank accounts for each estate or will a final breakdown of what went where suffice? When the house is sold it's treated as one property resulting in one transaction? Do we have to physically split this, or just do it 'on paper'.

The solicitor handling sale can just to the LR change direct without needing register it I the executors names that saves money.

joe_mcclaine

g6jns wrote: »

The solicitor handling sale can just to the LR change direct without needing register it I the executors names that saves money.

That'll do for us.

I'll ring round solicitors tomorrow. We'll need one for the oaths anyway and might as well use the same one for the sale.

SeniorSam

You can arrange with an Estate agent to market the property on the basis of a sale once Probate has been granted. Many buyers would be willing to wait.

The solicitor will evetually deal with the LRO (Land Registry Office) so that it would eventually be registered with the new buyer. No need to register in yor name and then do it again. The solicitor will explain everything. Get those 3 values so you will have figures for the submission, although this may vary slightly by the time a sale is agreed.

Get the property ready to be viewed by the agents, nice and tidy if possible. Dont forget to negotiate fees for solicitor and estate agents.

Sam

joe_mcclaine

SeniorSam wrote: »

You can arrange with an Estate agent to market the property on the basis of a sale once Probate has been granted. Many buyers would be willing to wait.

The solicitor will evetually deal with the |LAS (Land Registry Office) so that it would eventually be registered with the new buyer. No need to register in yor name and then do it again. The solicvitor will explain everyting. Get those 3 values so you will have figures for the submission, although this may vary slightly by the time a sale is agreed.

Get the property ready to be viewed by the agents, nice and tidy if possible. Dont forget to negotiate fees for solicitor and estate agents.

Sam

Re the 3 valuations. Is this for the IHT forms? I was going to take the average selling price of properties on the same street and add a bit ... is that a no-no?

g6jns_2

joe_mcclaine wrote: »

Re the 3 valuations. Is this for the IHT forms? I was going to take the average selling price of properties on the same street and add a bit ... is that a no-no?

The values needed are those at the date of the deaths so they will be different

SeniorSam

There needs to be a clear value of the property at the date of death and values from estate agents can give an average that should not be disputed. Remember that if the sale price were to increase considerably between date of death and sale date, the capital gains tax may be an issue if it is above the personal allowance of each beneficiary. This is doubtful if you intend selling the property now, but getting the right value is important.

Sam

nom_de_plume

There is a possibility of capital gains on the 50% of the property from the step dad's death in 2013. However, given the value of the estate and 5 beneficiaries of the property, capital gains tax allowances should be more than sufficient to negate the need to actually pay any.