Become a Nationwide member without "windfall" signaway

bristolleedsfan

wannabedebtfree wrote: »

I am a nationwide customer and have only been with them for about the past 4-5 years, I am confused by all of this (I think I may be having a senior moment!)

Can someone please explain in plain english??? I have read the article and it didnt help!!!

personally if i was you i would forget u saw the post, so far not one signaway has been enforced, signaways were introduced merely to avoid building societies being challenged by their members.

bristolleedsfan

wannabedebtfree wrote: »

And secondly most Building Societies that have converted in the past few years have put strict rules on the conversion benefits, such as number of years accounts held, balances being over a certain amount on several different dates over a period of years etc........... surely this will propbably be the case with Portman?

true some used to have a 2 year rule for cash payouts, ex building societies got round the two year rule ( to suit themselves to maximise the vote they wanted) by giving out shares instead of cash.

should nationwide ever decide upon changing its status, it would do whatever suited itself the best to maximise the vote it wanted to get in its favour.

MiserlyMartin

The FSA is being effective if it prevents cargetbagging. I would suggest that encouraging the de-mutalisation of the UK's largest building society (by a mile) is not in the best interests of long term moneysavers. Mortgages rates across the industry will rise without Nationwides competitive mutual status and general savings rates will fall. You'll make a quick buck today and pay for it - for the rest of your life, and so will future generations.

However theres no point to this. There are so many Nationwide members who have the signaway in force, that the few who apply for a Portman account won't be large enough to influence a cargetbagging vote. Also they will have to compete with the members even without signways who do recognise the importance of a Building Society.. so will vote no.

bristolleedsfan

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

The FSA is being effective if it prevents cargetbagging. I would suggest that encouraging the de-mutalisation of the UK's largest building society (by a mile) is not in the best interests of long term moneysavers. Mortgages rates across the industry will rise without Nationwides competitive mutual status and general savings rates will fall. You'll make a quick buck today and pay for it - for the rest of your life, and so will future generations.

However theres no point to this. There are so many Nationwide members who have the signaway in force, that the few who apply for a Portman account won't be large enough to influence a cargetbagging vote. Also they will have to compete with the members even without signways who do recognise the importance of a Building Society.. so will vote no.

last time there was a demutalisation vote at nationwide ( despite being led by an apparent muppet, against the stated desire of nationwide board) nearly 10 years ago the vote was virtually 50/50 which included arm twisting by branch staff ( many of whom no longer work for nationwide) many members where "shown" in the branches how and where to cast their votes.

should nationwide board ever recommend a yes for conversion vote, history shows that building society board recommendations that involve money payouts always get carried by a massive majority.

are u saying that if nationwide converted to plc status, then those plcs and banks who already offer higher savings rates( eg sainsburys and allied trust bank) than nationwide would reduce their savings rates.

when was last time nationwide BS had a best buy savings account for any length of time, let alone for a long period of time ? :think:

MiserlyMartin

Thats true, the board usually gets its way with vote results. According to BBC news, the 1998 vote was won by a majority of 1.6%. I was there in 1998 also and I don't remember any staff canvassing for votes in my local branches.

I agree that Nationwides savings rates have been a bit lower than the top rates that Icesave etc have been offering lately. I'm not happy about this but the mortgage rates are good. They are not top but you have to agree they are consistantly towards the top. They haven't been top since the launch of all these new internet foreign banks. If they converted to plc I think their savings rates would still try to compete with Icesave on a few accounts for headlines, but there would be more of a tendency to match the other banks paltry rates. For example how many high street banks do you know that are consistant with good rates on most of their accounts? If they were plc, I think there is a danger of them turning into a Barclays, where they occaisonally offer a top rate eg the Direct ISA, (which we know wil be only good for a year) but virtually every other account has very poor rates. Add to this higher Banking charges and the removal of benefits such as commison free debit and credit card use abroad, you have a a big consumer loss if Nationwide ever went plc

bristolleedsfan

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

Thats true, the board usually gets its way with vote results. According to BBC news, the 1998 vote was won by a majority of 1.6%. I was there in 1998 also and I don't remember any staff canvassing for votes in my local branches.

I agree that Nationwides savings rates have been a bit lower than the top rates that Icesave etc have been offering lately. I'm not happy about this but the mortgage rates are good. They are not top but you have to agree they are consistantly towards the top. They haven't been top since the launch of all these new internet foreign banks. If they converted to plc I think their savings rates would still try to compete with Icesave on a few accounts for headlines, but there would be more of a tendency to match the other banks paltry rates. For example how many high street banks do you know that are consistant with good rates on most of their accounts? If they were plc, I think there is a danger of them turning into a Barclays, where they occaisonally offer a top rate eg the Direct ISA, (which we know wil be only good for a year) but virtually every other account has very poor rates. Add to this higher Banking charges and the removal of benefits such as commison free debit and credit card use abroad, you have a a big consumer loss if Nationwide ever went plc

not all of us go abroad, free benefits are paid for by lower savings rates, nationwide hasnt had a best buy savings product since it introduced the protect itself signaways.

nationwide have already publicly stated their support of fees for current accounts and has effectively told other providers that if they lead it will follow,

1998 conversion vote majority of 1.6% was what i meant by "virtually" 50/50.

i like your posts miserly martin lets clarify matters on mutual nationwide. :idea:

how much do nationwide as a mutual building society, the largest in the world charge when people go overdrawn without prior permission? :think: ( and how much does this exercise cost nationwide ? :think:

and how much do the ex building societies charge? :think:

and how much do the big four high street banks charge ( who offer vastly more services than a building society does) :think:

and it was nationwide BS ( not alone) who threatened to close accounts where people attempted to claim back what have been regarded as "unfair charges" for going overdrawn without permission :whistle:

http://apocalypsetimes.blogspot.com/2007/01/recovering-illegal-bank-charges-and-why.html :whistle:

Milarky

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

According to BBC news, the 1998 vote was won by a majority of 1.6%. I was there in 1998 also and I don't remember any staff canvassing for votes in my local branches.

I remember the ballot boxes 'in branch' (which helped Nationwide staff 'help' elderly customers to to vote in their presence) The influence on the result of doing this cannot be dismissed. The margin was 1.5% in fact:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_company_file/138184.stm

'Yes' 1,101,887 (49.25%)
'No' 1,135,587 (50.75%)

Margin 33,700

(Turnout was about 45% - surprisingly high - I don't know how that compares with turnouts in the case of 'board led' ballots?)

I asked the ERS if they could tell me how many of the votes were cast at the chairman's discretion - or, equivalently, how many weren't. Since we know he cast his 'proxy' votes against the resolution it's been suggested to me (and this is totally unsubstantiated, you understand) that the 'yes' votes were ahead before he did this - and so he may have actually reversed a decision rather than merely supporting it. ERS won't tell anyone if they do know this for a fact since it's Nationwide that pays them to count the votes.

Counter55

bristolleedsfan wrote: »

... so far not one signaway has been enforced, signaways were introduced merely to avoid building societies being challenged by their members.

I don't think there have been any signaways of the type now used by most building societies including the Nationwide that have NOT been enforced either. There haven't been any conversions with charities involved in the agreement. I believe Standard Life did change its rules to allow more members to benefit when it converted but its rules simply said that new members wouldn't benefit - not that members must agree to give benefits to charity.

This restriction doesn't apply in the case of smaller societies being taken over by larger ones because that is treated as a merger not a conversion - as in the case of Portman paying out.

The Nationwide directors have set it up that it will be impossible to get a conversion vote - they then run the society for their own benefit - as was seen in the pay and pension levels in the last accounts.

MiserlyMartin

OK, Bristoleeds fan. You have a point about the recent Nationwide behaviour on closing down peoples accounts. You also have a good point about the new CE announcing that they may charge a monthly fee for current accounts, this is awful policy. I am not a fan of this current CE at all. I am annoyed about their own goal with their "New customers only" promotions.

However this can be changed. I can't see monthly fee banking working. Free Banking is ingrained here. People willl switch to anyone who doesn't charge a monthly fee, in their droves. Nationwide will become very unpopular and we may have the chance to vote this moron off the board eventually.. it at least its still a mutual and we'll have the chance to do this.

I recently switched my flexaccount to Halifax. There were a few !!!! ups with payments, some went late or not at all. Getting a refund from Nationwide was fairly easy even though it was Halifax's fault. Getting a refund from Halifax was damn near impossible. I think the only reason they did refund late payment fees and interest was the fact I was so persistant, calling them quite a few times a week for 3 months. I told them that 'in a climate where unfair charges are being reclaimed had you better not do the decent thing and refund now because I WILL take this all the way to court.' ( I was prepared to) The whole thing was very stressful and Halifax customer service is non-exisistant. Nationwide was such a change and now I know why I didn't bank with banks. I'm only with Halifax for the 6.17% credit interest rate and I'm making sure I have £2,500 maximum in there at all times. If the rate drops I'm off back to Nationwide for some proper service that I can't fault.

So to summarise, yes Nationwide are going through bad times with a rubbish CE etc, but if it was lost to the plc then its written off forever.

bristolleedsfan

MiserlyMartin wrote: »

However this can be changed. I can't see monthly fee banking working. Free Banking is ingrained here. People willl switch to anyone who doesn't charge a monthly fee, in their droves. Nationwide will become very unpopular and we may have the chance to vote this moron off the board eventually.. it at least its still a mutual and we'll have the chance to do this.

reason nationwide CEO publicly stated a desire to charge a fee for its current account albeit following others if others lead, is because nationwide want to recoop what they are losing on the "charges repayments" and are expecting that the charges for unauthorised overdrafts will be widely reduced so want to gain charges from other directions. nationwide are hoping that all current account providers levy charges for operation of current accounts.

here is nationwides current charges ( may be a little lower than some but still vastly higher than it costs them to administer.

Other account charges

Unauthorised overdraft charge £20 per month

Charge for transaction unpaid - insufficient cleared funds £30

Charge for cheques guaranteed - insufficient cleared funds £21.50 per transaction