Economy 7 Horror ?

Moneyless

I have been an Economy 7 user since my 1st place, as it's supposed to be the cheapest option, well it probably was at that time (30+ years), and for who knows how long before things changed, more so as I don't know when the crossover point happened.


I stumbled on an expensive issue while investigating changing suppliers, I was playing with the numbers to check if it was a constant saving, as opposed to only being a 1 off, and I was horrified to find I was paying well over £100 a year more than I could\should have been, and who knows how long this has happened for, so I would like to know what I can expect from my supplier over this ?


The supplier is EDF (it's current incarnation) through it's numerous name changes, but have never used any other supplier, so my entire history is held by them, no losing bits between changing suppliers which they might try to claim.


And on several bills it was noted to call them and check I was on the best tariff, which I did, more than once over the years, but I was always told I was on the cheapest tariff for me, so I let it ride, but after what I just found it appears I was not, it's like they knew I was paying too much with the notes on the bills, but the staff when I phoned and asked always said I was already on the cheapest one, am I able to claim anything back ?

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

E7 has never been the "cheapest" - it is only cheaper for those whose "phasing" between off peak and on peak consumption is heavily tipped towards off peak. This is typically, but not always, those with storage heaters.

Considering that the only person that is in control of this is you, I can't see you getting very far. Energy companies don't know or care how you choose to run your household.

macman

You were on the cheapest tariff for your metering system, i.e. the cheapest E7 tariff.
As above, E7 is generally cheaper if you have NSH's and an immersion heater. A few people manage to make it work for them on a property with another form of heating and hot water production (i.e a gas boiler), though most will use single rate metering. There is no chronological 'crossover point'
The supplier has no idea how you heat and hot water the property, and cares less, so they won't be offering you any 'compensation' at all.
Remaining with the same supplier for over thirty years has cost you far more in higher bills than you'd have lost from 'wrongly' being on E7.

[Deleted User]

Eco 7 can be the cheapest option even with gas central heating. Sainsburys Energy have their eco 7 rates now, in my area , at 12 p kwhr norm and only 4p ish kwhr at low ( thats a dual fuel tariff only ) Others are even cheaper..so use a good percentage of cheap night rate units 25%to 30% of the total, hopefully with an analogue timerswitch incorrectly set, and you re quids in.

Scrounger

Moneyless wrote: »

And on several bills it was noted to call them and check I was on the best tariff, which I did, more than once over the years, but I was always told I was on the cheapest tariff for me, so I let it ride, but after what I just found it appears I was not, it's like they knew I was paying too much with the notes on the bills, but the staff when I phoned and asked always said I was already on the cheapest one, am I able to claim anything back ?

I think you *may* have a case:

EDF would have known your historical E7 day/night usage ratio and therefore should have advised a change to a standard tariff as part of their 'cost cutting' process.

IMO, they should recalculate your bills (based on their cheapest standard tariffs over the years) and refund the difference. Especially as you participated in their service to keep you on the best tariff.
Raise a complaint - what have you got to lose? :beer:
Scrounger

Moneyless

You say they don't know what I use, how can that be ?
I have 2 meter readings, they know how much power each uses, and therefore knows if I can get anything cheaper from those numbers, it's irrelevant what I use to get those figures in some ways, the figures speak for themselves, what produced them doesn't really matter when looking at the numbers, BUT, that said, if you were to be looking at taking on that tariff, then Yes, what you use plays a large part in what you should do, and when I was in that position, I did take what I was using into account before deciding, and it definitely saved me money at that time.


But saying it was never the best tariff is so wrong I don't know where to start, maybe you had no idea about this tariff back then perhaps, so I find it hard to see how I could have done anything different, and please don't just say I should have changed suppliers, I've seen a professor of mathematics that I studied under take such numbers, and produce entirely different results to show whatever result he wanted to see every time, all results were correct in their calculation, but it was dependant on the approach he used, as to the answer he got, and my best guess is that at the time I should have changed tariff's, swapping suppliers was not even a thought back then, let alone a choice, you had no choice but to use who was controlling your area.


There is definitely a crossover point, it is a rock solid fact that at x point it was no longer the cheaper option, albeit from moving houses, thus having more modern facilities, hell my first house had no bathroom, only an outside loo, which you had break the ice first during the winter months, then after you had to flush with buckets of water, and a bath in the kitchen, and that's only because the previous tenant put it there, and you could see daylight through the window frames, but we never had any kind of cold or anything, it's only when we moved to a house with heating that we were forever going down with colds, and bronchitis in my case.


The history clearly shows when this happened, all you need is the numbers, and the knowledge in how to apply them, more so when they started to change just how they did this, so I have to totally disagree with that comment, but Yes, I almost certainly have been paying far more than I should have.


My point is I shouldn't have been though, they had put it on numerous bills to check with them that they do not have a tariff that would be better for ME many times, so in hindsight someone or something knew I could do better back then, but every time I asked they said No, I was on the best tariff.


I have always taken such prices with a pinch of salt, and the few times I had previously wondered about switching, I saw loads of people complaining they were paying more, which at those times it confirmed my suspicions, but as you state, as long as you know you can use more in cheap time than in daytime, you can be much better off, an example is a washing machine, our first one had no timer, no delay option, and timer plugs were not cheap at that time, but once they were cheap enough I got one, and it made a £20 difference per quarter back then, which reinforced the view of Economy 7 being cheaper.


This is the 1st time I have seen a benefit to change, maybe because it’s no longer just the main suppliers anymore, so they can’t get away with such tricks as much now, I don’t know, I have been retired disabled for 26 years now, and it's downhill all the way, so quite frankly I don't have the energy to deal with being messed about, which is what most appeared to have been facing each time I looked before now, I have enough of my own problems to deal with, but I will definitely raise this with EDF, I just wanted to see where I stood before I did, because they have failed to provide me with the information after I requested it on more than 1 occasion, and as such how am I to know if there is a better option, if they fail to see anything better when I asked, what chance did I have.

macman

Moneyless wrote: »

You say they don't know what I use, how can that be ?
I have 2 meter readings, they know how much power each uses, and therefore knows if I can get anything cheaper from those numbers, it's irrelevant what I use to get those figures in some ways, the figures speak for themselves, what produced them doesn't really matter when looking at the numbers, BUT, that said, if you were to be looking at taking on that tariff, then Yes, what you use plays a large part in what you should do, and when I was in that position, I did take what I was using into account before deciding, and it definitely saved me money at that time.


But saying it was never the best tariff is so wrong I don't know where to start, maybe you had no idea about this tariff back then perhaps, so I find it hard to see how I could have done anything different, and please don't just say I should have changed suppliers, I've seen a professor of mathematics that I studied under take such numbers, and produce entirely different results to show whatever result he wanted to see every time, all results were correct in their calculation, but it was dependant on the approach he used, as to the answer he got, and my best guess is that at the time I should have changed tariff's, swapping suppliers was not even a thought back then, let alone a choice, you had no choice but to use who was controlling your area.


There is definitely a crossover point, it is a rock solid fact that at x point it was no longer the cheaper option, albeit from moving houses, thus having more modern facilities, hell my first house had no bathroom, only an outside loo, which you had break the ice first during the winter months, then after you had to flush with buckets of water, and a bath in the kitchen, and that's only because the previous tenant put it there, and you could see daylight through the window frames, but we never had any kind of cold or anything, it's only when we moved to a house with heating that we were forever going down with colds, and bronchitis in my case.


The history clearly shows when this happened, all you need is the numbers, and the knowledge in how to apply them, more so when they started to change just how they did this, so I have to totally disagree with that comment, but Yes, I almost certainly have been paying far more than I should have.


My point is I shouldn't have been though, they had put it on numerous bills to check with them that they do not have a tariff that would be better for ME many times, so in hindsight someone or something knew I could do better back then, but every time I asked they said No, I was on the best tariff.


I have always taken such prices with a pinch of salt, and the few times I had previously wondered about switching, I saw loads of people complaining they were paying more, which at those times it confirmed my suspicions, but as you state, as long as you know you can use more in cheap time than in daytime, you can be much better off, an example is a washing machine, our first one had no timer, no delay option, and timer plugs were not cheap at that time, but once they were cheap enough I got one, and it made a £20 difference per quarter back then, which reinforced the view of Economy 7 being cheaper.


This is the 1st time I have seen a benefit to change, maybe because it’s no longer just the main suppliers anymore, so they can’t get away with such tricks as much now, I don’t know, I have been retired disabled for 26 years now, and it's downhill all the way, so quite frankly I don't have the energy to deal with being messed about, which is what most appeared to have been facing each time I looked before now, I have enough of my own problems to deal with, but I will definitely raise this with EDF, I just wanted to see where I stood before I did, because they have failed to provide me with the information after I requested it on more than 1 occasion, and as such how am I to know if there is a better option, if they fail to see anything better when I asked, what chance did I have.

They know how many kWh's you use on each register, but they do not know how you heat and hot water the property.
And, if you switched from NSH's and an immersion heater at any time in the last 30 years (as many houses have, with the ubiquity of gas central heating), then they also don't know that either.
E7 is still much cheaper for many properties without access to main gas: it totally depends on usage, region, lifestyle, heating/hot water system and insulation. So 5 factors, 3 of which your supplier is entirely in the dark about.
I repeat, you were advised correctly, because you were on the cheapest tariff. E7 is not a tariff, it's a metering option. Any current EDF tariff can be had as an E7 or single rate option. The type of metering is determined by the original installer, and after that it's the choice of the occupier-not the supplier.

Bark01

It doesn't mater how the OP heats their property all that matters is how much use there is on each register

The suppliers know this consumption split and show it in the 'About your tariff label' which is shown in the right hand column of the second page of every bill.

This projected consumption is then used to work out if the customer could save money on any other tariff. The results of this are shown on the 1st page of your bill, right hand column. This tells you if you can pay less by swapping tariffs/payment plans/ meter and has done since March last year.

Its part of the RMR regulation, so all suppliers have to do this and they all have to put it in the same location. I therefore doubt very much the OP has a case, if he has a bill he will have been told.

If you want to change your EC7 meter you have 2 options with EDF:
1) They will either change your actual meter for free (other suppliers will charge you ~£50)
2)or they can put you onto what is known as a totaliser where you keep your meter but the supplier just adds the 2 EC7 reads together and bills you 1 rate.

macman

I think the OP is somehow under the impression that they have a case for compo for ?26 years over-billing, not just since March '14. Or since some mythical historical 'cross-over point' at which they imagine E7 suddenly became more expensive for everyone. Dream on..

Moneyless

Well it's obvious most are missing the point, so I won't waste more time with this one here, the bottom line is, they know how much I was paying, it's irrelevant what creates those figures, I already have the service.

I am not after any compensation as such, just repayment (some at least) of what I was overpaying, sorry if my expecting people to do their job properly is beyond some, but they failed to do just that, if I asked a garage to sell me a economical car to run, and they sell me a 20 mpg car, it's obvious they did not do their job properly, when there are cars capable of over 100 mpg, it's no different here.


And I am not saying there is a historical point things change, and there is no mythology about this, that's the kind of ignorance that lets company's get away with this, as stated many times, if you are using enough power in the cheap time periods then you are saving, what I am saying is that everyone, at some point will end up using less than you need to for it to continue to be worth it (this has no set point as everyone has different needs), but that's the point where people should change, but when the supplier wrongly tells you that you are on the best deal, how do you know it's time to change or you will be overcharged ?

• They noted for me on my bills (I have them all) to check with them I wasn't paying too much, so they must have been aware that I was not on the best deal.
• I rang them each time and asked mentioning my bill had said to do this, to be told it was the cheapest deal for me.
• They have the figures in front of them, I don't.
• What produces my figures is irrelevant once you are on this service, the costs are the ONLY thing that matters here as they clearly show I was consistently no longer benefiting from it.
• They failed to give me correct details each time I requested them, so were miss-selling me a service as far as I am concerned.

The only way I could have done more is by doing their job for them, yet I don't get paid for it, and by the way some appear to be condoning this, it's no wonder the country is going the way it is, so I'm done here.

espresso

Moneyless wrote: »

Well it's obvious most are missing the point, so I won't waste more time with this one here.
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The only way I could have done more is by doing their job for them, yet I don't get paid for it, and by the way some appear to be condoning this, it's no wonder the country is going the way it is, so I'm done here.

You have had your head in the sand for 30+ years and you say that it is not your fault and blame your supplier for this, describing your situation as "Economy 7 horror".

You and you alone decided have that E7 was the best tariff for your needs and the fact that you have never ever changed supplier in that length of time says a lot about your attitude.

No posters here are missing the point, only you.

You are one of the "it's not my fault it's theirs" brigade and you should not get any recompense from your supplier for your own ignorance!