New flat-can only install electric heaters

ChumpusRex

Ultimately, the choice depends upon several things:

Personal preference
Capital costs
Running costs

These are all highly affected by things such as size of property, type and extent of insulation, etc.

In a very small flat, the capital costs of a heat pump or storage heaters may not be justifiable, especially if well insulated and surrounded on all sides by other flats. The pattern of occupancy may also be relevant - if you work from home, of if you are retired, or if you stay at home to look after young kids, more heating is required and this can change things. Then, there is the question of how long you plan to live there.

Panel heaters have the lowest capital costs, but highest running costs.
Storage heaters have higher capital costs, but lower running costs.

Heat pumps may well be unsuitable in this situation, but it would be at least worth thinking about them, and deciding that they are not an option, before proceeding down another path.

spiritus

lstar337 wrote: »

Really?

I was trying to be helpful.

I genuinely do appreciate that if that was indeed your intention but your first post was unhelpful and unconstructive.

Admittedly I do not know much about heat pumps but if this involves housing any unit on the exterior of the building then it’s a deal breaker as I doubt the management company would accept this.

This would mean I am left with either storage heaters or panel heaters (or possibly oil filled electric radiators).

I have known a few people who had storage heaters and their feedback has been mixed. Some say they are great whilst others say that the heaters can run out of heat in the evening.


They don’t seem particularly difficult to run but require a little thought as there is a need to select how much electricity to draw at night for the next day’s heating meaning keeping an eye on the weather forecast (again not difficult in winter but Spring or Autumn when temperatures can change drastically from day to day can mean you either do not have enough heat for the next day or you have too much heat and are therefore wasting it by opening a window.

lstar337

spiritus wrote: »

I genuinely do appreciate that if that was indeed your intention but your first post was unhelpful and unconstructive.

I don't believe so. It was deliberately written that way to shock you and make you think about your options. Your first post read as if you had basically made up your mind on panel heaters.

Panel heaters are disastrous in a lot of situations. I believe that unless you have no money or are only staying for a few months, panel heaters are 100% the wrong choice.

spiritus wrote: »

Admittedly I do not know much about heat pumps but if this involves housing any unit on the exterior of the building then it’s a deal breaker as I doubt the management company would accept this.

So heat pumps are a no-go. Fair enough, but it was worth the consideration either way.

spiritus wrote: »

This would mean I am left with either storage heaters or panel heaters (or possibly oil filled electric radiators).

True.

spiritus wrote: »

I have known a few people who had storage heaters and their feedback has been mixed. Some say they are great whilst others say that the heaters can run out of heat in the evening.

Storage heaters get a lot of bad press, but most of it is wrong.

Generally, those that say they run out of heat have and incorrectly sized installation and very poor insulation, or they are using them wrong.

If they run out of heat, then they either didn't store enough the night before (incorrectly sized), or it was let out too quickly (user error). User error is more or less eliminated with modern units.

spiritus wrote: »

They don’t seem particularly difficult to run but require a little thought as there is a need to select how much electricity to draw at night for the next day’s heating.

This is no longer true. Most storage heaters made in the last 15 years have automatic charge control. Automatic charge control uses the rooms current overnight temperature to determine how much charge to take based on your current input setting. Generally, you set the input to high in winter, medium in spring/autumn, and off in summer. This is what I did when I had them. Always keep the output set to off unless you need an evening heat boost (I never did).

In newer storage heaters built in the last 3 years, they are even more sophisticated you set the temperatures that you want for different times of the day, and the heater does the rest itself.

Your initial outlay will be much higher with storage heaters (especially the newest sophisticated models), but your running costs will be far far lower. Something to consider if you are staying there for a while.

See, I really was trying to help.

spiritus

lstar337 wrote: »

See, I really was trying to help.

so you were


What about oil filled radiators or oil filled panel heaters ? I'm even confused as to whether these are one and the same thing !!


The latter appears to have the same running costs as a normal (oil-less panel heater) so the economics isn't a factor.


Storage heaters seem to be the least expensive to run but expensive to purchase 3 x heaters

macman

OP, why are you determined to triple your bills by not fitting NSH's? And if not using E7, how are you going to hot water the property without using expensive single rate electricity? Without gas, you are still going to need an immersion heater.
And you still haven't said what the existing metering is.
Yes, the install costs are higher for NSH's, but you will recover that difference in well under a year. You will also increase the resale value of the property with E7 installed.

spiritus

lstar337 wrote: »

In newer storage heaters built in the last 3 years, they are even more sophisticated you set the temperatures that you want for different times of the day, and the heater does the rest itself.

But the heat is never really "on demand". I am not being facetious but that is why they are called storage heaters. They store the heat to be released the following day.


I'm not saying they are complicated only that it takes a certain degree of planning to select what heat setting you require the following day. I am not the only one saying this.

Cardew

spiritus wrote: »

But the heat is never really "on demand". I am not being facetious but that is why they are called storage heaters. They store the heat to be released the following day.


I'm not saying they are complicated only that it takes a certain degree of planning to select what heat setting you require the following day. I am not the only one saying this.

Whilst I agree that NSH on E7 is the cheapest solution in most cases, I can understand the reluctance of the OP and many others to go down that route; particularly if you are not at home during the day.

For a 'tiny flat' and depending on the hot water demand, the heating & HW costs will not be high. The sheer flexibility of panel heaters
and lower installation costs, are perhaps worth the additional running costs,

It is also pertinent to point out that some blocks of flats ban the overnight use of some appliances because of the noise issue.

ChumpusRex

spiritus wrote: »

I'm not saying they are complicated only that it takes a certain degree of planning to select what heat setting you require the following day. I am not the only one saying this.

Not really, they have electronic controls these days, which deal with this.

You just set the temperature you want, and the heater sorts it out.

Owain_Moneysaver

spiritus wrote: »

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What about oil filled radiators or oil filled panel heaters ? I'm even confused as to whether these are one and the same thing !

Storage heaters seem to be the least expensive to run but expensive to purchase 3 x heaters

Panel heaters / convector heaters / oil-filled radiators / oil-free radiators / wonder german clay-filled eco-heaters are all basically the same. 1 kW lecky in = 1 kW heat out, and that kW will cost about 16p at standard rate.

For storage heaters in a 1-bed flat you would usually have 1 large in lounge and 1 small in hall. A panel heater in the bedroom as that room is heated mostly overnight when it's cheap rate anyway. On Eco 7 the day rate is a bit higher, but the night rate is typically 6p so about 1/3rd the day rate. That's comparable to gas.

You would also need a well insulated hot water cylinder to heat your hot water at the night rate and store it for use during the day. Washing machine etc use at night as well if possible to take advantage of the cheap rate.

If you are out during the day, or have irregular hours and can't commit to at least 1/3rd of your electricity use being between midnight and about 7 am, Economy 7 and storage heating might not be for you.

spiritus

ChumpusRex wrote: »

Not really, they have electronic controls these days, which deal with this.

You just set the temperature you want, and the heater sorts it out.

I don't quite agree.


A storage heater is a storage heater whether it has fancy electronic controls or not.


The user has to select how much energy to draw at night on the cheap tariff to use the following day.


The method of selecting how much energy to use might look more sophisticated if you use a computerised, electronic display etc but the basic principle has to be the same.