Tenant subletting without consent

ncooper1974

Thanks for all advice/replies so far.

In response to G_M, the tenant notified me via text of his intention to leave. He never ever responds to my phone calls, and so only communicates via text or email, often with very little detail. On receiving his text, I sent a s21 as a backup just in case he didn't leave, so that I could begin court proceedings as soon as possible. The s21 expires 3rd or 4th April.

I have arranged to meet with the family again after work this evening, and will ask them to be credit and referenced checked by my local estate agent. If they pass, then I will accept them as tenants and create a new AST from the period that I was aware they were living there (i.e. Sunday 7th March). I will then ask them for 6 weeks deposit and 1 months rent before signing the tenancy.

It then remains for them to try to get their deposit back from my original tenant - I'm not sure how they go about this but luckily I don't need to be involved.

I will keep posters updated as and when I get further information

Pixie5740

But the tenants already have an AST with your former tenant. Have you sought proper legal advice about this situation yet? I hope the current tenants seek advice from Shelter or similar.

HereBeDragons_2

Several years ago I was in the position of your unwitting sub-letters, unknowingly renting what was actually a Council-owned property. There was no contract in place - I'd only taken the flat on as I was utterly desperate at the time and needed to find somewhere that day - but my experience of the court proceedings may still be of some use to you, or help clarify some of the legal situation re the current occupants.

Once I twigged what was going on and challenged my 'landlord' - who quickly turned nasty and started harassing me at the property (turning off the gas outside and suchlike) - I went down the Council housing offices to report it and get advice.

Initially I was told by a clueless housing advice officer that I was trespassing on Council property and had to leave immediately. I got home and rang Shelter, who said the law against illegal eviction still applied. They also advised me to change the lock on the front door so the Council tenant could no longer gain access.

I was then rung by a very helpful Council housing fraud officer. I didn't particularly want to be awkward and stay on, but I had nowhere else to go and needed time to look for somewhere else. She explained to me what the legal situation was in terms of my occupation, and what would happen.

In order for them to gain repossession of the property, the Council had to gather sufficient proof that the tenant was subletting (done by her inspection of the property and checking whose belongings were there, and by her taking a statement). She explained that I was an unauthorised occupant, but not a trespasser, and that I would be evicted once the court granted them repossession. I was told to stop paying rent to the tenant immediately, and it was explained that from then on I would be billed by the Council for "use and occupation" charges - for exactly the same amount as the normal rent on the property (and quite a lot less than the rent I was paying to the tenant!). I got a statement in my name through the post, and even a Council rent payment card for making payments. The key thing was the phrasing re my occupation and payments to them - their officer said that to protect their interests the word rent must be avoided as that suggested a lawful tenancy was in place.

I was also sent a "Protection from Eviction" notice to put up on the glass on the front door, stating the Council was the landlord and permission to change the locks had to be sought from them, so that if the tenant turned up with a locksmith it would hopefully prevent her breaking back into the flat and moving her possessions back in. Which is exactly what the tenant attempted to do one day when I fortunately happened to be home. I rang the Council officer immediately and then started a conversation with the bemused locksmith and the tenant out of the bedroom window, stalling them both. The officer was there within 5 minutes and issued a Notice to Quit to the tenant in person. It was brilliant.

They started proceedings against the tenant. Their tenant issued me with a Notice to Quit, which I was told to ignore. I was named as a second defendant on the court papers, on the basis of my occupancy, and told that as long as I paid the Council's use and occupation charges I would not have any other costs or fines, as I was effectively a victim of fraud. As others have said on this thread, the deposit I'd paid to the tenant was not the Council's concern and I just had to write it off. Thankfully it was a reasonably small sum.

I attended the hearing (strangely the tenant did not show), explained what had happened, possession was granted and then the Council started eviction proceedings. All in all the process took about 5 months, and I have to say I did rather enjoy the fact that I was paying a lot less as an unauthorised occupant than I was for my original sublet!

Some time last year I happened to see a TV show which followed a Council Housing team in a different London borough investigating suspect tenancies and rogue landlords. I immediately recognised the officer who had helped me, and I have to say she was as brilliant at her job as ever.

HereBeDragons_2

ps - I forgot to add that I was only billed for use and occupation charges once the Council's Notice to Quit to their tenant expired.

theartfullodger

What a great, illuminating, story HereBeDragons:

Well done you helping council get the little ssc*at or a cr**k!

HereBeDragons_2

theartfullodger wrote: »

What a great, illuminating, story HereBeDragons:

Well done you helping council get the little ssc*at or a cr**k!

Thanks. It was no picnic - the harassment was pretty stressful at times - but the Council were so supportive that I was determined to help them get their flat back so they could let it to someone who really needed it. My housing officer even went so far as to make a report at the local police station about the harassment and made them note the situation and the possibility that their tenant may attempt to evict me illegally.

Apparently councils rarely manage to secure repossession when they discover subletting, as their dodgy tenants regain occupancy quickly by whatever means they can, and once the unauthorised occupant has left they lose the best evidence they have to support the court proceedings.

I hope my post helps the OP - I know a Council Tenancy is different to an AST, and I never saw the council's Notice to Quit so I don't know how that differs from a S.21, but I imagine the proceedings required to gain repossession and deal lawfully with the occupants in situ are pretty similar.

stator

Interesting to find out if the deposit the sub-letters paid is protected?

G_M

ncooper1974 wrote: »

In response to G_M, the tenant notified me via text of his intention to leave. ......I sent a s21 as a backup just in case he didn't leave, so that I could begin court proceedings as soon as possible. The s21 expires 3rd or 4th April.

This does not really answer the questions I posed in post 10 above. Was it a) or b)? What was the exact wording of the text? (and do you still have it???)

The distinction may seem slight, but has significant legal consequences.

Remember - your sub-tenants are probaly getting legal advice from somewhere too, and even if you decide to offer them a new ASR after credit cheacking, may well balk when you demand a 6 week deposit. So their understanding their current legal status may be critical if a mutual way forward cannot be reached.

Interesting post herebedragons - thanks.

ncooper1974

G_M, in response to your question about exact wording, the nature of the text was:
Tenant: "I leave your property next month"
Me: "OK. Let me know which day you are leaving and I will come up to to have a look at the flat and arrange the deposit return"
Tenant: "3rd March"

ncooper1974

To give everyone a quick update, around 3pm yesterday I started getting irate phone calls from the tenant, and the family.
It seems that the tenant had gone to the property with 3 other friends to change the locks and remove the family. They tried to force entry, at which point the police were called, as at the time only the mother and her 2 small children were at home.
After various (about 38 in total !!!) phones calls between the tenant, the family and the police, the police decided the best thing would be to remove the tenant and his friends from the property. I was then collected by the police to speak with the family.
The police then left and I went outside to speak with the original tenant, and asked him what he actually wanted to happen next. We agreed that if he returned his keys to me, then I would return his deposit (which is still with the DPS) and that way he is out of the picture.
I then spoke again with the family and explained that I would be happy for them to remain as tenants, providing they pass the neccessary credit and reference checks.
For the time being, they are remaining in the property, but I have arranged for them to speak with my local estate agent to get referenced and then we can start a new tenancy.

I will then need to further arrange a time for the old tenant to come back to the flat to collect his furniture.

I will come back as soon as I have further news, but for now at least, I think the family are happy that the old tenant will not return as the mother and children seemed quite shaken up.