Police Pension changes

vivaespana

Hi,
Is there anybody on here who can offer any advice (or knows of someone who can) on the imminent changes to Police Pensions. I expect some people wont have a lot of sympathy as it's still a good pension, but their contributions have already increased a lot over the last few years and now they are completely changing what officers signed up for all those years ago. I know there are a lot who are thinking of pulling out altogether, but nobody seems to have any advice on what to do for the best. So, on behalf of my friend - can anybody help?
Many thanks.

atush

Well yes, it has caused some upset.

but you do have to compare what they would do w/o the police pension. AS you would have to pay tax on the money and Nics and would forgo the employers substantial contributions?

As far as I can see, any long serving officer should stay in t he pension as there is nothing they could do with their own contributions that would beat even the new scheme.

I have heard some here make some calculations that new, younger officers might be better off out but not sure I can completely agree due to losing the employers money completely. And new officers haven't joined with the pension in mind as they knew it was changing.

jamesd

Tell your friend that opting out of the pension is equivalent to believing a police officer in an interview room that it will improve the suspects fate to act on the officer's assurance that they will "ask the court to be lenient" in exchange for a full written confession.

Don't believe the rubbish, stay in and eventually enjoy one of the best pensions around. If someone wants to retire earlier, use a personal pension as well, to bridge the gap between desired retirement and plan retirement date.

It's really only those who can expect a very short career, perhaps those who just know that they aren't cut out for the job or aren't going anywhere in it who might consider opting out.

hugheskevi

I have heard some here make some calculations that new, younger officers might be better off out but not sure I can completely agree due to losing the employers money completely.

Just to add, as jamesd says above, the only time time this holds is young officers who are sure they will be leaving soon. By young member this means those in their early to mid 20s. Whether a new employee will remain in employment for a short or long period is a difficult thing to know - many people take a job thinking they will only be there a few months or a year or two, and end up staying a long time.

So anyone thinking they will be in employment for a long time should stay in the scheme, regardless of their age. Young members who think, but are not certain, they may leave the job fairly quickly should also stay in the scheme as the loss if they remain in employment for a long period is considerable, compared to only a small possible gain if they do leave early.

For most officers, staying in the scheme will be the right decision - anyone opting out on financial grounds should know exactly why they are opting-out, and if they have any doubt stay in. As they will be foregoing a guaranteed pension, for presumably a Defined Contribution alternative, they also need a reasonable investment risk tolerance (ie at least average). From what I have read, most opting-out do so for ill-informed reasons, so when making this assessment do not rely on views of other officers unless they can clearly and numerically articulate why opting-out could be better.

I have heard some here make some calculations that new, younger officers might be better off out but not sure I can completely agree due to losing the employers money completely.

For the group that may be better off opting-out (young officers, in early to mid 20s who are committed to leaving employment within a few years) there is no employer contribution. Their employee contributions more than pay for the cost of the pension accrued. The value of benefits accrued are considerably more than the average employer for some members (older members and those who will be long-serving members who will work to at least age 55) and considerably less for others (younger members who leave early). In the specific case of a young early leaver the value of the employer contribution can fall to zero (or even lower).

Personally I add these sort of calculations for balance against the perceived wisdom that public service pensions are amazing for all members and should never be questioned, rather than as a suggestion that posters should consider opting-out. A lot more information about a member than can be obtained on an internet forum would be needed before being confident enough to suggest opting out would be best, as it is such a big decision with a lot more potential downside than upside.

hyubh

vivaespana wrote: »

now they are completely changing what officers signed up for all those years ago.

How many years ago in the case of this friend? While it isn't a good reason to opt out (cutting of the nose to spite the face and all that), the cases where 'completely changing' can be plausibly considered less than hyperbole are 1987 scheme members who are nevertheless young enough not to enjoy transitional protections when the 2015 scheme comes in.

berbatov10

Jamesd off subject but I love the line about believing Police in interview. I actually tell people Iam going to lock them up if I can because they need to be!

jamesd

"Don't worry, berbatov10 will back off if I ask them to go easy on you".

Glad you liked it.

kidmugsy

vivaespana wrote: »

on behalf of my friend - can anybody help?

Is he a man or is he a mouse? Of course he should leave the police pension scheme. Only spavined old creatures wouldn't. In fact he should probably leave the police. Indeed he should dash off the Kurdistan to fight against the barbarians. That'll larn 'em.

atush

Kid, are you on the sauce this early lol?

desthemoaner

I find this thread very interesting because my brother has recently retired from the police service, and because until 2007 I was a firefighter, retiring in October of that year and receiving my full pension.


Since my retirement I have watched with dismay as first the Labour government and then much more so the Tory led Coalition began to dismantle the firefighters pension scheme. Their masterstroke was to decide that firefighters would have to work until the age of 60 to receive a full pension, despite numerous studies which have more or less confirmed that no serving member can maintain the required level of fitness up until that age, and that therefore many firefighters will find themselves being forced to leave the service with a much reduced pension; opportunities for redeployment into non operational roles being severely limited.


The Fire Brigades Union has mounted a determined campaign against the changes, but I didn't know that the police pension was under attack also; although given the concerted attack by this government on the whole spectrum of public service pensions I should hardly be surprised.

Are police officers also being asked to work until 60 before they receive a full pension?

PeacefulWaters

desthemoaner wrote: »

I find this thread very interesting because my brother has recently retired from the police service, and because until 2007 I was a firefighter, retiring in October of that year and receiving my full pension.


Since my retirement I have watched with dismay as first the Labour government and then much more so the Tory led Coalition began to dismantle the firefighters pension scheme. Their masterstroke was to decide that firefighters would have to work until the age of 60 to receive a full pension, despite numerous studies which have more or less confirmed that no serving member can maintain the required level of fitness up until that age, and that therefore many firefighters will find themselves being forced to leave the service with a much reduced pension; opportunities for redeployment into non operational roles being severely limited.


The Fire Brigades Union has mounted a determined campaign against the changes, but I didn't know that the police pension was under attack also; although given the concerted attack by this government on the whole spectrum of public service pensions I should hardly be surprised.

Are police officers also being asked to work until 60 before they receive a full pension?

I think you'll find private sector pensions have been hammered more.