Paying for my dad's care home. Will the council expect me to pay as I have retired ?

smjxm09

The Wills were just simple affairs, the house was in joint names but I was left a lump sum. As the years past the lump sum was spent which was never a problem. The lump sum was then financed by the sale of the house as I was the sole beneficiary of mums Will. The Will made no direct mention of the family home just possessions and a lump sum . Everyone was happy, dad moved in as planned, he had money to spend which was more than enough seeing that he had no expenses and we got on with life.

I left a well paid job at Christmas as there was not a hint of what lay ahead. If I knew what was going to happen I would have stayed at work.

Sorry OP, you can't expect to take all your fathers money and then expect me and others to pay for his care.

I don't expect you to pay for anything in the same way that you don't expect me to pay for your child allowance, your kids schooling and your NHS costs as well as the International Aid budget, EU membership or supporting the 569,000 immigrants who have arrived since 2011 and have yet to pay much if anything into the system with their low paid jobs but are entitled to state help.

I also don't expect your taxes to pay for social housing or the array of benefits that many people see as their right but I would like to think that hard working people in a time of need get the same help that those who spend their lives holding a begging bowl.

Make no mistake my father has an illness which is no different from you having an illness like cancer and then expecting help from the state. It is why we all pay taxes and pay into the NHS.

xylophone

If the house was owned as joint tenants, then it could not pass by will.

When your mother died, the house became your father's absolutely.

Your mother could only leave assets which were wholly hers- had the house been owned as tenants in common, she could have left you her share. She could also have left you cash in her account, jewellery etc.

Therefore when the house was sold, the money belonged wholly to your father.

[

I benefited from her inheritance which left dad with assets below £15000.

You benefited from the sale of your father's property - why was it important to be "below £15,000" - a benefit threshold?

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS40_deprivation_of_assets_in_the_means_test_for_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

might throw some light?

le_loup

smjxm09 wrote: »

EU membership or supporting the 569,000 immigrants who have arrived since 2011 and have yet to pay much if anything into the system with their low paid jobs but are entitled to state help.

I also don't expect your taxes to pay for social housing or the array of benefits that many people see as their right but I would like to think that hard working people in a time of need get the same help that those who spend their lives holding a begging bowl.

Ah! Got a bit of an agenda have you?
Well so have I.
It looks like you have tried to arrange matters so that YOU wouldn't lose your inheritance. Good luck with that.

ognum

smjxm09 wrote: »

The Wills were just simple affairs, the house was in joint names but I was left a lump sum. As the years past the lump sum was spent which was never a problem. The lump sum was then financed by the sale of the house as I was the sole beneficiary of mums Will. The Will made no direct mention of the family home just possessions and a lump sum . Everyone was happy, dad moved in as planned, he had money to spend which was more than enough seeing that he had no expenses and we got on with life.

I left a well paid job at Christmas as there was not a hint of what lay ahead. If I knew what was going to happen I would have stayed at work.

I don't expect you to pay for anything in the same way that you don't expect me to pay for your child allowance, your kids schooling and your NHS costs as well as the International Aid budget, EU membership or supporting the 569,000 immigrants who have arrived since 2011 and have yet to pay much if anything into the system with their low paid jobs but are entitled to state help.

I also don't expect your taxes to pay for social housing or the array of benefits that many people see as their right but I would like to think that hard working people in a time of need get the same help that those who spend their lives holding a begging bowl.

Make no mistake my father has an illness which is no different from you having an illness like cancer and then expecting help from the state. It is why we all pay taxes and pay into the NHS.

OP, I think you need to take the emotion out of this and look at the legality.

If your parents home was jointly owned it in its entirety passes legally to your father. If your parents owned their home as tenants in common then your fathers share remains his and your mothers share could be liquidated to be passed to you if this is what the will stated.

You may have been granted a lump sum from your mother will but if that money was not available then it was not yours to have.

Your father could give you the money from the house sale but for 7 years that remains taxable as part of his estate and should he required to pay for his care, it remains part of the available funds he has to pay for that care.

You may prefer it was not this way, for many tax and inheritance issues we would prefer not to pay the large sums we do but that is the legal position.

Ranting at other posters here does not change this. Maybe giving up your job will allow you to keep your father at home so funds will not be needed or maybe you could use some of his attendance allowance to buy care at home.

smjxm09

Thanks to those that have given sound advice. Rants were not my intention but dad is not well and I feel his pain.

It looks like you have tried to arrange matters so that YOU wouldn't lose your inheritance. Good luck with that.

I have arranged nothing but it doesn't matter anyway. £15000 was just a figure, it could have easily have been £50,000. The thinking behind £15,000 was to avoid probate and not care home costs as I never thought he could end up in such a place.

Mojisola

smjxm09 wrote: »

Mum died in 2012 leaving just my dad. Their house was sold with dad moving in with me in that year. I benefited from her inheritance which left dad with assets below £15000.

As I have no job I have no income but I do have money in the bank which is part mine and part inheritance.

ognum wrote: »

If your parents home was jointly owned it in its entirety passes legally to your father. If your parents owned their home as tenants in common then your fathers share remains his and your mothers share could be liquidated to be passed to you if this is what the will stated.

You may have been granted a lump sum from your mother will but if that money was not available then it was not yours to have.

The council will assess your father as still having any money he gave you. Whether you were entitled to anything from your mother's estate would depend on how they owned the house - as ognum describes.

It's good that you haven't spent the money that you received from your Dad. Until you are sure how they owned the house, think of all that money as your Dad's.

What is acceptable is to work out a reasonable contribution from your father towards rent and household bills since he has been with you and for him to pay you that. Document how you arrive at the amount to show that it is fair.

If you have made any adjustments to the house or bought new furniture for his use, those bills can also be paid from his money.

Read up on how residential care is paid for on the AgeUK website.

Jenniefour

Can we be sensitive here to OP's situation because I believe what has gone on with mothers will was unintentional and well meaning, and many lay executors simply do not know enough to be able to carry out their duties properly.

OP, you rightly say that you were the only beneficiary of your mothers will where she intended you to have a specified amount of money on her death. The house was jointly owned so was never part of the estate and simply reverted to sole ownership by your father when your mother died. Unfortunately, at the time your mother died the money she intended you to have had been used up. This means that your intended inheritance failed.

I assume that your father was the executor of your mothers will. After your mother died then one of the two following happened:-

a) either your father did not understand that the bequest to you had failed and, in a loving and well meaning way, thought it was entirely proper to give you the money when the property had been sold and believed he was giving you the inheritance from your mother. The difficulty here is that he did not know he should not have done this. A well meaning mistake but what this meant is that he gave you part of his assets, and not your mothers. Or,

b) your father did indeed realise that the bequest to you had failed because there was no money in your mothers estate when she died but, nonetheless, he wanted to give the money to you from his own assets. It was his right to do so. However, this money should have been given to you on the understanding that were he to need residential care it would have to be given back if needed.

Unfortunately, this does mean that the money your father has given to you will need to be taken into account when assessing financial matters concerning his care.

A reminder to us all to update our wills when assets and other things change, and to have enough knowledge of the responsibilities of being a lay executor.

Hope all goes well for you and your father, OP.

Jenniefour

ognum wrote: »

If your parents home was jointly owned it in its entirety passes legally to your father. If your parents owned their home as tenants in common then your fathers share remains his and your mothers share could be liquidated to be passed to you if this is what the will stated.

Yes, it all hinges on this. The exact kind of tenancy parents had. I assumed, because OP said it was a joint tenancy that it was exactly that.

smjxm09

What is acceptable is to work out a reasonable contribution from your father towards rent and household bills since he has been with you and for him to pay you that. Document how you arrive at the amount to show that it is fair.

This is all starting to turn into a nightmare from something that seemed so simple.

There are no documents. Dads pensions and allowances brought in around £1000 a month. That money went into the family pot of living expenses and to look after him, which totaled was around £2000 a month. Dad wanted for nothing as anything he needed he got including days out and weekends away which was never cheap. So to answer your question I would say his money from the sale remains untouched by living expenses.

I assume that your father was the executor of your mothers will

Yes he was and he dealt with all aspects of the will. In fact I can't even find her Will now not that I hope it matters.

No none of the money has been spent but it is in my name. That now poses another question. If dad now died would that money now be viewed as a gift with inheritance tax due or would his Will override the gift, not that it was his intention that it was a gift but a legacy from mum.

The reason for asking is that I could move the money back into his name.

atush

Sorry Jenniefour, but we Or at least I do not need a lecture.

I did try to help the OP. and did suggest that part of the money they received was above question. regardless of the ownership question.

Including rent, food, utilities, and changes to her home from furniture and other misc, to equipment and modifications. If they gave up work to care, were you claiming carer's allowance? If not why not? Do so if not?

So please, get off here and get to work. Find out how the house was owned, as that is the most important factor. Then start totting up his expenses owed to you for living there. I expect you haven't been claiming these all along, but do tot them up now, as this will be money from his home sale that you can keep.

AS regards the old will, dig out any paperwork about any money in joint accts or sole accts for your mum at the date of her death. Half of the balance of joint accts, plus any sole accts- this money can also be yours under her will. this is even if the money from the house sale is 100% your fathers due to the ownership.