Paying for my dad's care home. Will the council expect me to pay as I have retired ?

smjxm09

Mum died in 2012 leaving just my dad. Their house was sold with dad moving in with me in that year. I benefited from her inheritance which left dad with assets below £15000.

Dad was in fine health all of 2013 but needed a little help in 2014 so qualified for attendance allowance at the lower rate. This year his mental and physical state suddenly deteriorated and now gets the higher allowance. I also gave up work in part to look after him full time so I get a carers allowance.

It might be getting close to dad needing to go into a care/ nursing home but as he has no assets apart from £15000, which might only last 15-20 weeks will the council come on to me to pay for his care home? As I have no job I have no income but I do have money in the bank which is part mine and part inheritance. That money should take care of my retirement which has stated early but it won't if I have to pay for dad's care.

At the moment I am not taking the company pension as I would get a reduction for taking it early but even this pension would only cover 1 weeks care home costs per month leaving me with nothing.

atush

Basically, if you got your mothers and fathers money from the house sale, then yes you are going to have to stump that back up. You are not liable in general to pay his care home fees, but you will have to give back most of the 'inheritance'.

It is called Deprivation of assets. He should have retained most of that money. It is allowed that he pays you for his room and board, and for you to use any of the money to adapt your home for him to live there such as putting in a downstairs bedroom and bathroom.

But not to have all of the rest of the money, as it looks like he kept just enough to come in under the savings allowance.

I would contact CAB and age concern for some help with this.

Dunnit

What would a reasonable notional amount be? I know of someone in a similar position with the parents moving into the son's house 3 years ago. The parents handed over the money from the sale of their house but the friend is reluctant to spend any of the money despite now homing them without further payment. The son has curtailed his paid work, cooks meals and cleans. There is no issue that this person would put their relatives into care but they have no idea of the financial position if they did have to.

atush

Well the son should be claiming carer's allowance (as should the OP if father is infirm?)

The notional amount should include room rent (up to the allowance which is just over4K perhaps?) and a reasonable fee for food and utilities. Which can be figured, but the father could pay more than his % share, in that he is home all day so the house must be heated.

But I assume he has State and perhaps other pensions and the income from these could pay this.

Your friend should deduct any and all costs of adapting the home for the parents to live there. These are true costs of them living there, and I assume they could hunt up the invoices for the work?

le_loup

Sorry OP, you can't expect to take all your fathers money and then expect me and others to pay for his care.
Or perhaps you think that that is reasonable?

elsien

I think you need to clarify what you mean when you say inheritance. If the money came from mum leaving it to you in her will instead of to dad, that's different to mums share going to dad then him giving it to you.

jamesd

First thing to know about deprivation of assets in this sort of case is that it applies if there was an individually predictable need at the time assets were disposed of, not just the general knowledge that some people eventually need care.

So it is vital information to know that "Mum died in 2012" and "Dad was in fine health all of 2013". This implies that there was no expectation of him needing care in 2012 and that presumably his medical records will support this.

Next thing to know is that it is only the assets of the person needing care,or those that they disposed of, that are considered.

For this part the vital information is "Their house was sold with dad moving in with me in that year. I benefited from her inheritance which left dad with assets below £15000". This implies that the house was owned by the mother, not the father, and hence was not one of his assets. Since it wasn't his asset it can't be subject to deprivation of assets rules.

However there are lots of implied things that should be clarified, including:

1. Was there any medical evidence that he would soon be in need of care in 2012? Just in case the mother's estate is somehow part of his assets.
2. How was the house owned before your mother's death? Her alone, tenants in common, joint tenancy, something else?
3. Did she have a will? If so, what did it say about how her estate should be divided?
4. Did your father use a deed of variation or any other means to give up anything that he would normally have inherited from her estate, whether by a will or not? For example, did he just say that you should have the money, not him?

Pending clarification it currently appears that your father is not going to be subject to deprivation of assets rules because it wasn't his money that you inherited. Even if it was his money, it appears that there was no individually predictable need for care at the time of disposal of the assets. Either of those would mean that you have nothing to pay.

The council is likely to want to investigate this so it's useful to get started on putting together the facts and evidence now, helped by questions here, then by more expert personal advice.

smjxm09

The will was over 20 years old and I was left a cash sum. As the years past that cash sum could only be met with the sale of mum and dads house. As they lived 200 miles away it was always the intention that whoever was left would come and live with us. Our house was extended some years ago with this in mind.

Dad was in perfect health and on no medication. Even for the whole of 2014 he was in quite good health although he got a little muddled and qualified for the lower allowance.

I understand that deprivation of assets could apply if it was a deliberate act but dad was in good health and it was always the intention that dad would live with us with no expense to him which is what the inheritance is paying for.

elsien

Did dad give you money over and above the cash sum to bring his assets to below 15k, and if so how was the amount he kept arrived at? Because if he knew that was the threshold and arranged his finances to keep below it, that could imply a degree of pre-planning.

jamesd

OK, the perfect health should do the job but he/you will be asked about the house as well so it's good to get proof of that lined up.

One issue with the house would be if it was owned by them together as "joint tenants". This is common and if this is how it was owned, the ownership of the whole house would have passed to him on her death. Her will could not override this. So in this case the house and the money raised from selling it would legally have been his, not hers and since it wasn't hers her will could not decide who got that money.

If it was instead owned as "tenants in common" the usual split would be half the value each. So her will could govern half of the money from the sale and the other half would have been his.

Finally for the common cases would be if she was the only owner and he didn't own it at all. Then her will would rule.

BeansOnToast_2

smjxm09 wrote: »

The will was over 20 years old and I was left a cash sum. As the years past that cash sum could only be met with the sale of mum and dads house. As they lived 200 miles away it was always the intention that whoever was left would come and live with us. Our house was extended some years ago with this in mind.

So if your dad had died first you would still have got the money? That sounds like the house was probably jointly owned, so after her death the house would have been at least half-owned by your dad regardless of what the will said. Which means that your dad gave you the money - you didn't inherit it.