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Santander Chargeback
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*cobra*
Posts: 6 Forumite
Hi,
Unsure if this thread is posted in correct section so I apologise in advance if it isn't because I'm not a regular poster on site.
This is all rather long winded so please bear with me, it's all been a bit of a roller coaster.
I placed an order for a watch online on 27/11/14, it was coming from a company in Germany but never arrived.
Even though it was purchased and paid for several days before, the watch was only (allegedly) handed to DHL Germany to be shipped to me on 4/12/14 when I was half expecting it to have arrived. No tracking number was initially provided and I had to hunt that up which I eventually got but from the 5/12/14 all tracking details have shown.... "The international shipment has been processed in the export parcel center" and that is where all tracking details have been lost. I contacted the seller a few times to see if they could shed some light, I contacted Parcelforce with which parcel was meant to be handed, attempted to contact DHL Germany but you can imagine where that went, and DHL UK couldn't help either because all they could get is same tracking details as I.
After exhausting every conceivable avenue I was left with no other option other than submitting a Paypal claim. I submitted a PP claim and was convinced PP would get me my money back seeing as I'd never received the item plus tracking details back that up, however how wrong was I, PP sided by the seller believe that or not and here was their reply.........
In response to your claim, the seller has provided proof of postage
indicating that the item was sent to you. Because the seller was able to
provide proof of postage, we cannot reverse this transaction or issue a
refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to
amicably resolve this matter.
PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has
been noted in the record of the PayPal member you reported. If we find this
member has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate
action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status
of this complaint.
To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click Security located at the top of any page. There you
will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the "Fraud Prevention
Tips for Buyers" section.
Yours sincerely,
PayPal
A member in another forum suggested I initiate a chargeback with my bank (Santander) which I did. I supplied all the relevant info including tracking number and paperwork to back my claim up, Santander investigated it and found in my favour and rightly so. On 16/1/15 I was delighted when Santander refunded my money and I thought that was the end of it, but I should have known better.
On 14/2/15 I received a letter from Santander explaining that they had received correspondence back from retailer (Leoswatch) disputing the chargeback and retailer claimed that because PayPal backed them so should Santander. Accompanying letter Santander sent me was a statement which I had to sign allowing Santander time to investigate this dispute and if they don't hear back within 10 days they'll take from that I'm happy and the dispute is over and they'll credit Leoswatch with the chargeback amount. I obviously signed statement and posted it off on same day it arrived. Letter was allowing me 10 days to reply, it was dated 10/2/15 arriving on 14/2/15 so realising 4 days out of the 10 were already up and it was Saturday I didn't waste time getting statement sent off.
Upon opening my bank statement today 5/3/15 I was stunned and quite angry to see Santander had credited the chargeback money back to the retailer (Leoswatch), the credit chargeback happened on 20/2/15 exactly 10 days after the deadline to get statement back in.
I immediately contacted Santander but couldn't get through to the department dealing with chargebacks, so person I was talking to sent them an email because she had no further info to tell me, she hinted the letter maybe didn't arrive and I assured her I had sent it so she put that on email.
I can only suspect Santander didn't receive the letter or at least they'll claim that, more than likely it's probably sitting on some tray in their office. So does anyone know if that'll be the end of it now Santander have credited the cash back to retailer. All I want is my money back and that's not asking too much, I've done nothing wrong after all unless paying for an item which doesn't receive is a crime then I'm guilty as charged. I paid for the item which didn't arrive and tracking details prove that, and besides there is no way DHL or Parcelforce would deliver a parcel without a signature, there would be a signature somewhere out there.
And ridiculous reason Paypal sided by Leoswatch was because they make money from that company who trade with them daily, me, I make Paypal nothing yet I'm being sacrificed for it. The onus is on the seller to prove an item is delivered, it's not for the buyer to prove it wasn't. It is the Seller's responsibility up until the item has been delivered and signed for and if lost then submit a claim against the courier for the loss in transit. Leoswatch won't do that if they've got my money.
I just want to put this whole sorry saga to rest. I need advice and will exhaust every avenue in order to get my money back. Who do I complain to should Santander stick to their guns and claim I never posted the statement letter back (as if) and uphold the credit chargeback in light of that. Letter was prepaid and wasn't sent via a signed for delivery service so I'll have a problem trying to prove I posted the letter back. But who wouldn't have posted a letter back when it in actual fact benefits them, it's only common sense after all.
Thanks.
Unsure if this thread is posted in correct section so I apologise in advance if it isn't because I'm not a regular poster on site.
This is all rather long winded so please bear with me, it's all been a bit of a roller coaster.
I placed an order for a watch online on 27/11/14, it was coming from a company in Germany but never arrived.
Even though it was purchased and paid for several days before, the watch was only (allegedly) handed to DHL Germany to be shipped to me on 4/12/14 when I was half expecting it to have arrived. No tracking number was initially provided and I had to hunt that up which I eventually got but from the 5/12/14 all tracking details have shown.... "The international shipment has been processed in the export parcel center" and that is where all tracking details have been lost. I contacted the seller a few times to see if they could shed some light, I contacted Parcelforce with which parcel was meant to be handed, attempted to contact DHL Germany but you can imagine where that went, and DHL UK couldn't help either because all they could get is same tracking details as I.
After exhausting every conceivable avenue I was left with no other option other than submitting a Paypal claim. I submitted a PP claim and was convinced PP would get me my money back seeing as I'd never received the item plus tracking details back that up, however how wrong was I, PP sided by the seller believe that or not and here was their reply.........
In response to your claim, the seller has provided proof of postage
indicating that the item was sent to you. Because the seller was able to
provide proof of postage, we cannot reverse this transaction or issue a
refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to
amicably resolve this matter.
PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has
been noted in the record of the PayPal member you reported. If we find this
member has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate
action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status
of this complaint.
To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click Security located at the top of any page. There you
will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the "Fraud Prevention
Tips for Buyers" section.
Yours sincerely,
PayPal
A member in another forum suggested I initiate a chargeback with my bank (Santander) which I did. I supplied all the relevant info including tracking number and paperwork to back my claim up, Santander investigated it and found in my favour and rightly so. On 16/1/15 I was delighted when Santander refunded my money and I thought that was the end of it, but I should have known better.
On 14/2/15 I received a letter from Santander explaining that they had received correspondence back from retailer (Leoswatch) disputing the chargeback and retailer claimed that because PayPal backed them so should Santander. Accompanying letter Santander sent me was a statement which I had to sign allowing Santander time to investigate this dispute and if they don't hear back within 10 days they'll take from that I'm happy and the dispute is over and they'll credit Leoswatch with the chargeback amount. I obviously signed statement and posted it off on same day it arrived. Letter was allowing me 10 days to reply, it was dated 10/2/15 arriving on 14/2/15 so realising 4 days out of the 10 were already up and it was Saturday I didn't waste time getting statement sent off.
Upon opening my bank statement today 5/3/15 I was stunned and quite angry to see Santander had credited the chargeback money back to the retailer (Leoswatch), the credit chargeback happened on 20/2/15 exactly 10 days after the deadline to get statement back in.
I immediately contacted Santander but couldn't get through to the department dealing with chargebacks, so person I was talking to sent them an email because she had no further info to tell me, she hinted the letter maybe didn't arrive and I assured her I had sent it so she put that on email.
I can only suspect Santander didn't receive the letter or at least they'll claim that, more than likely it's probably sitting on some tray in their office. So does anyone know if that'll be the end of it now Santander have credited the cash back to retailer. All I want is my money back and that's not asking too much, I've done nothing wrong after all unless paying for an item which doesn't receive is a crime then I'm guilty as charged. I paid for the item which didn't arrive and tracking details prove that, and besides there is no way DHL or Parcelforce would deliver a parcel without a signature, there would be a signature somewhere out there.
And ridiculous reason Paypal sided by Leoswatch was because they make money from that company who trade with them daily, me, I make Paypal nothing yet I'm being sacrificed for it. The onus is on the seller to prove an item is delivered, it's not for the buyer to prove it wasn't. It is the Seller's responsibility up until the item has been delivered and signed for and if lost then submit a claim against the courier for the loss in transit. Leoswatch won't do that if they've got my money.
I just want to put this whole sorry saga to rest. I need advice and will exhaust every avenue in order to get my money back. Who do I complain to should Santander stick to their guns and claim I never posted the statement letter back (as if) and uphold the credit chargeback in light of that. Letter was prepaid and wasn't sent via a signed for delivery service so I'll have a problem trying to prove I posted the letter back. But who wouldn't have posted a letter back when it in actual fact benefits them, it's only common sense after all.
Thanks.
0
Comments
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Hi,
Unsure if this thread is posted in correct section so I apologise in advance if it isn't because I'm not a regular poster on site.
This is all rather long winded so please bear with me, it's all been a bit of a roller coaster.
I placed an order for a watch online on 27/11/14, it was coming from a company in Germany but never arrived.
Even though it was purchased and paid for several days before, the watch was only (allegedly) handed to DHL Germany to be shipped to me on 4/12/14 when I was half expecting it to have arrived. No tracking number was initially provided and I had to hunt that up which I eventually got but from the 5/12/14 all tracking details have shown.... "The international shipment has been processed in the export parcel center" and that is where all tracking details have been lost. I contacted the seller a few times to see if they could shed some light, I contacted Parcelforce with which parcel was meant to be handed, attempted to contact DHL Germany but you can imagine where that went, and DHL UK couldn't help either because all they could get is same tracking details as I.
After exhausting every conceivable avenue I was left with no other option other than submitting a Paypal claim. I submitted a PP claim and was convinced PP would get me my money back seeing as I'd never received the item plus tracking details back that up, however how wrong was I, PP sided by the seller believe that or not and here was their reply.........
In response to your claim, the seller has provided proof of postage
indicating that the item was sent to you. Because the seller was able to
provide proof of postage, we cannot reverse this transaction or issue a
refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to
amicably resolve this matter.
PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has
been noted in the record of the PayPal member you reported. If we find this
member has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate
action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status
of this complaint.
To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click Security located at the top of any page. There you
will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the "Fraud Prevention
Tips for Buyers" section.
Yours sincerely,
PayPal
A member in another forum suggested I initiate a chargeback with my bank (Santander) which I did. I supplied all the relevant info including tracking number and paperwork to back my claim up, Santander investigated it and found in my favour and rightly so. On 16/1/15 I was delighted when Santander refunded my money and I thought that was the end of it, but I should have known better.
On 14/2/15 I received a letter from Santander explaining that they had received correspondence back from retailer (Leoswatch) disputing the chargeback and retailer claimed that because PayPal backed them so should Santander. Accompanying letter Santander sent me was a statement which I had to sign allowing Santander time to investigate this dispute and if they don't hear back within 10 days they'll take from that I'm happy and the dispute is over and they'll credit Leoswatch with the chargeback amount. I obviously signed statement and posted it off on same day it arrived. Letter was allowing me 10 days to reply, it was dated 10/2/15 arriving on 14/2/15 so realising 4 days out of the 10 were already up and it was Saturday I didn't waste time getting statement sent off.
Upon opening my bank statement today 5/3/15 I was stunned and quite angry to see Santander had credited the chargeback money back to the retailer (Leoswatch), the credit chargeback happened on 20/2/15 exactly 10 days after the deadline to get statement back in.
I immediately contacted Santander but couldn't get through to the department dealing with chargebacks, so person I was talking to sent them an email because she had no further info to tell me, she hinted the letter maybe didn't arrive and I assured her I had sent it so she put that on email.
I can only suspect Santander didn't receive the letter or at least they'll claim that, more than likely it's probably sitting on some tray in their office. So does anyone know if that'll be the end of it now Santander have credited the cash back to retailer. All I want is my money back and that's not asking too much, I've done nothing wrong after all unless paying for an item which doesn't receive is a crime then I'm guilty as charged. I paid for the item which didn't arrive and tracking details prove that, and besides there is no way DHL or Parcelforce would deliver a parcel without a signature, there would be a signature somewhere out there.
And ridiculous reason Paypal sided by Leoswatch was because they make money from that company who trade with them daily, me, I make Paypal nothing yet I'm being sacrificed for it. The onus is on the seller to prove an item is delivered, it's not for the buyer to prove it wasn't. It is the Seller's responsibility up until the item has been delivered and signed for and if lost then submit a claim against the courier for the loss in transit. Leoswatch won't do that if they've got my money.
I just want to put this whole sorry saga to rest. I need advice and will exhaust every avenue in order to get my money back. Who do I complain to should Santander stick to their guns and claim I never posted the statement letter back (as if) and uphold the credit chargeback in light of that. Letter was prepaid and wasn't sent via a signed for delivery service so I'll have a problem trying to prove I posted the letter back. But who wouldn't have posted a letter back when it in actual fact benefits them, it's only common sense after all.
Thanks.
Personally I would have gone back to Paypal and asked for them for the proof of delivery by which they closed the paypal claim, as their Buyer Protection specifies that a seller needs to provide proof of postage rather than proof of delivery.
https://www.paypal.com/gb/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security0 -
You can complain to Santander, then to FOS if needed.0
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This has gotten more sinister since I last posted. Just off the phone with Santander because this whole situation was eating away at me and I wanted an answer only to be told Santander didn't credit Leoswatch Germany's account with the disputed amount which was initially refunded back to me, Leoswatch went back into my account and took the money back out themselves. That is obviously fraudulant in itself because I didn't authorise that transaction but I do find it somewhat strange it happened exactly 10 days after a deadline for Santander to receive a statement had expired, coincidence? maybe!
In meantime Santander is sending me out another statement and are blocking that retailer from taking any further money from my account, but it's quite disconcerting knowing that retailer still had the means to do what they did.0 -
......only to be told Santander didn't credit Leoswatch Germany's account with the disputed amount which was initially refunded back to me, Leoswatch went back into my account and took the money back out themselves.
This I do not understand: If you've used Paypal to pay (either via CC or as DD from your bank account), how would the dealer have gotten your account details to take the disputed amount from your account?
Did you actually deal with (the real) Paypal or were you tricked into using a fake Paypal site. Have you been registered with Paypal before the transaction or did you become a member just to pay for this one purchase?0 -
The watch was paid for via my regular Paypal account, it wasn't an ebay transaction, sure it was a Paypal rep who made the ridiculous decision against me in favour of seller after I opened a dispute, despite the item never arriving and tracking number verifying that.
I believe the Santander person I was talking to today possibly got his wires crossed because it's strange how the money gets credited back into the retailers account exactly 10 days after a deadline to get a signed statement sent back to Santander expired, that's my take on it but I can't say with absolute certainty until I find out more. According to man I was speaking with this afternoon Santander are resending the statement in coming days for me to resign and post off once again so I'll keep you posted.0 -
Just a thought, would it be possible for Paypal to go back into my account without notice and retake the disputed money after retailer raised a dispute with Paypal by claiming the decision against me was overruled by Santander?
I just do not know, banking disputes and banking in general is way over the top of my head.0 -
Regardless of how the money was taken recently, it was an unauthorised transaction and has to be refunded by Santander.0
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erm.... checked my Paypal account and in the resolution centre it appears the chargeback case is now closed after my bank got involved with Paypal releasing the following status update..... The chargeback case is closed because there is insufficient evidence to dispute the chargeback.
Not one email notification of the above case did I ever receive. The person dealing with the chargeback case obviously had the common sense to see there was no point in disputing the chargeback because it was bang to rights hence no notification of any further evidence to submit, unlike the other clown who ruled in sellers favour.
Yet according to my bank transactions the following payment was retaken from my account and I didn't authorise it, it's no surprise with the initial transaction date 27-11-2014 also highlighted. I don't wish to speculate but why would that be?
20/02/2015 CARD PAYMENT TO PAYPAL *LEOSWATCH,409.08 GBP, RATE 1.00/GBP ON 27-11-20140 -
they can re-reverse the refund, they wont of redebitedDon't put your trust into an Experian score - it is not a number any bank will ever use & it is generally a waste of money to purchase it. They are also selling you insurance you dont need.0
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they can re-reverse the refund, they wont of redebited
Are you talking about Paypal re-reversing the refund or my bank? unless he didn't know the full facts and made it up as he went along according to guy from Santander I was talking with, the retailer took the money back out and it's an unauthorised transaction, maybe the Santander rep meant Paypal took money back out on behalf of retailer.
Think it's now high time I ring Paypal to see if they can shed some light on this. They should, the transaction was Paypal related.0
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