Sunlife - no policy

CommStone

My Aunt has recently passed away and an executor, I have been going through her bank statements and paperwork, and have been trying to tie up all loose ends. We have managed to deal with all of this successfully, except for one aspect.

We found from bank statements that my aunt had been paying £18 per month to Sunlife (and previously AXA Wealth). There is no paperwork anywhere. It’s been coming out since 2006! We contacted them with names, post-codes, reference numbers (from the direct debit) and they are claiming that there is no policy and never has been. They are saying that the money has been taken due to a keying error.

They have offered to refund the cash, plus interest and have also sent us a cheque for £50 for the inconvenience caused (we had to send 4 or 5 letters with death certificates, to get them to even acknowledge our query).

On the one hand, we want this last piece of the jigsaw dealt with, so we want to just take the money and bank it, but we also think that their reason of a keying error seems a little vague. Surely she must have had a policy at some point? You can’t just take money from someone’s account without reason. A keying error would not give you the permission to start taking an amount from someone on a monthly basis.

Does anyone have any experience with a similar problem? Any advice on how I should proceed?

InsideInsurance

A keying error will indeed allow you to take money without permission if the miss key is on the bank account details of an electronic DD mandate form and coincidentally its another assigned number thats keyed.

Have they said they have definitively identified where the money has gone to and its for something in someone elses name or that they still dont have a clue and so are assuming its an error?

Have you spoken to Axa Wealth at all? Whilst they probably deleted their records when the book was sold to SunLife they may have retained something

CommStone

Originally, on the phone, Sunlife said that they could not locate a policy. they suggested we send in a letter explaining the situation with a death certificate and a page from the bank statement showing the money going out.

We sent this and had a standard letter back saying that no policy was on record. We called and they apologised that no resolution had been made, and suggested we resend the above - which we did.

Again, standard letter back. So we called and complained and the manager got involved, and we did the same process again, but we marked it all for her attention. Again, the standard one liner back.

So we emailed a proper complaint and then we started to get somewhere and they offered us the money back, with the interest and a £50 cheque for our troubles!

So you think it is possible to take money from an account due to a keying error? Surely then my aunt has been paying for someone else's policy? Do you not need a name an address and bank details to take money from someone? You can do it purely on sort codes and bank account number?

We are not worried about the money, we just don't want to be taken for a ride if there is a legitimate policy there somewhere. They are not going to be dishonest for a £1900 though are they?

They have not offered an explanation as to where the money has been going. Axa Wealth, which was the company name on the statement when it first started going out, said to call Sunlife and they washed their hands of it!

prosaver

axa sunlife has sold its policys to http://www.friendslifegroup.com/about-us/our-history.aspx
Phone them up with aunts details they should give you another phone number (insurance department).
good luck ....
if not write to watchdog ...good luck

InsideInsurance

You only need the sort code and bank account number. Sort code there are only a limited number of and if its a miss key rather than fraud then this could well be keyed correctly. Bank account numbers are a simple 8 digit number. I know the bank I worked for didnt have a checksum number and so 12345678 and 12345677 could both be valid number and so a miss key simple to make.

It is because of the low security of the DD scheme that the DD Guarantee exists, that you simply need to tell your bank that the payment is unauthorised and your entitled to an instant refund.

I personally would want a very clear statement from them that either they have traced the monies and its been going to someone elses policy due to a miss key on the DD instructions or that they've no idea whats going on and so just guessing its a miss key. Obv if its the later then the complaint needs to be taken further.

dunstonh

So you think it is possible to take money from an account due to a keying error?

Yes. very easily done.

Surely then my aunt has been paying for someone else's policy?

Yes. and that will be an uncomfortable discussion with that policyholder!

Do you not need a name an address and bank details to take money from someone?

If you get a number wrong in typing in then the wrong persons account will be debited. In most cases, the chance of a bank account number being currently issued or not a valid number means it would be found out early. In this case, the wrong bank account number belonged to someone.

They are not going to be dishonest for a £1900 though are they?

They are not going to be dishonest full stop.

They have not offered an explanation as to where the money has been going.

They dont need to and shouldnt.

Axa Wealth, which was the company name on the statement when it first started going out, said to call Sunlife and they washed their hands of it!

AXA Wealth dont own the company any more and dont have access to records. Its not that they are washing their hands of it. They just have nothing to do with it.

InsideInsurance

dunstonh wrote: »

They are not going to be dishonest full stop.

I agree it is highly unlikely that would be outright dishonest but they may be a little lazy.

There are however cases of insurers being dishonest, the DL was fined for falsifying records on complaints.

I have also seen cases where miss filing, poor system migrations etc have made finding things a real pain and people not being willing to spend weeks going through things to try and find a single record.

That said, the nature of Life business is very different to GI due to most policies being a decade plus in duration and so perhaps they are more rigorous than us in GI (though my limited experience of them says otherwise)

rs65

CommStone wrote: »

We found from bank statements that my aunt had been paying £18 per month to Sunlife (and previously AXA Wealth). There is no paperwork anywhere.

That point sort of supports the response you are getting from them.

eranou

prosaver wrote: »

axa sunlife has sold its policys to http://www.friendslifegroup.com/about-us/our-history.aspx
Phone them up with aunts details they should give you another phone number (insurance department).
good luck ....
if not write to watchdog ...good luck

Sunlife Direct policies sold after 2005 did not transfer to Friendslife, if the payment was going to Axa Wealth then it will still be Axa Wealth that administer it.

prosaver

eranou wrote: »

Sunlife Direct policies sold after 2005 did not transfer to Friendslife, if the payment was going to Axa Wealth then it will still be Axa Wealth that administer it.

thats not what i heared (or googled)


try friends life ..nothing to lose:cool:

prosaver

We found from bank statements that my aunt had been paying £18 per month to Sunlife (and previously AXA Wealth). There is no paperwork anywhere. It’s been coming out since 2006...
if you found one statement,then it could of been coming out many years before
hence friendslife