Never signed or saw tenancy agreement, can I leave early?

kinger101

MBer13 wrote: »

I really appreciate all the comments and opinions here, but I'm looking for actual facts. jbainbridge, yes, I have a tenancy. If it wasn't a joint tenancy I know that in this situation it would purely be a verbal contract (because I've paid my deposit and rent, this is assumed), and as such (although both me and the landlord have various rights) I could leave whenever I want and they are not entitled to chase me for my rent, take any of my deposit, or chase my guarantor.

I suspect it is 'joint and several', is that not what most student lets are? but surely by never signing, seeing, or agreeing to a tenancy agreement, I haven't technically joined that under the same terms? What if they show me the tenancy agreement that everyone else has and I say I don't agree with some of the terms?

bitterandtwisted, I want to come clean and negotiate, I just want to get the facts straight first. I understand they can't make me sign a tenancy agreement now that I have moved in to the property, neither can they evict me, so I have nothing to lose by coming clean and being polite/giving them warning. I am also planning on finding a replacement to take over my tenancy, but I'm just looking for a plan b if I can't find anyone.

I won't be leaving early if it leaves my housemates liable, that's what I'm trying to determine here.

Stop trying to worm you way out of this. You have a tenancy agreement because you live there and pay rent. It's obviously based on whatever document you failed to sign. There's no point trying to argue it's anything else. It's too late to say you didn't agree to the terms. You ratified the agreement when you move in.

I suggest you obtain a copy of it as soon as possible so that you can find out what your obligations are.

Thrugelmir

MBer13 wrote: »

I was really busy at the time catching up with uni work, and having just moved in, I never went.

Not much of an excuse.

booksurr

MBer13 wrote: »

I know that by paying rent and a deposit I have technically entered a 'verbal contract', but if it was me on my own renting the place, I know that this doesn't mean that I'd have to conform to anything that might be stated in a tenancy agreement, and as such, could legally leave whenever I want, with my full deposit, and no issues.

utter rubbish
I take it you are not a law student as your "knowledge" is lacking!

MobileSaver

MBer13 wrote: »

I know that by paying rent and a deposit I have technically entered a 'verbal contract',

Not "technically" and "verbal" is superfluous. You have entered into a contract. Simples.

MBer13 wrote: »

I know that this doesn't mean that I'd have to conform to anything that might be stated in a tenancy agreement, and as such, could legally leave whenever I want, with my full deposit, and no issues.

You could not be more wrong.

You are liable for the remaining 2 to 3 months and the Letting Agent will almost certainly chase the remaining tenants for this as the least hassle (for them) option.

MBer13

Wow, guessing some of you are landlords! I am certainly not a law student, no. I am basing this on other websites; which I know, is not the most reliable source. I know that I have entered a contract. I also know that both me and the landlord have statutory rights. However, I was never even shown a tenancy agreement. I'm also not listed in the joint tenancy, or under the deposit protection scheme (whereas all other tenants are) - isn't there legislation against this too? Anyway..

"As soon as a landlord agrees to allow someone to rent his or her property and accepts rental payment, a verbal contract is formed."

propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/tenants-without-a-written-contract/

"You can’t prevent a tenant from having a tenancy just by not giving them a written tenancy agreement. As soon as they go in and start paying rent, a tenancy will be created under s54(2) of the Law of Property Act 1925.

However such a tenancy is inadvisable as it will be harder for you to prove what the terms are. If you have a written tenancy agreement which says the tenant is paying £900 per month rent – there can be no argument. But if there is NO written document you may find it hard to prove that the agreed rent is not something else.

A tenancy deposit is money which belongs to the tenant. So for a landlord to be able to make deductions from it – this needs to be authorised by a signed agreement, the tenancy agreement.

If there is no tenancy agreement therefore, then there is no authority for the landlord to make any deductions from the tenancy deposit – no matter how dreadful the condition of the property when the tenant moves out.

If he tries to make any deductions, any challenge made by the tenant will succeed at adjudication."

landlordlawblog.co.uk/2013/06/05/what-happens-if-you-dont-have-a-tenancy-agreement/

I did find loads of sites about the notice period when there is no written agreement, but don't have time to link them now (will later). I just couldn't find anything on how this changes because its a joint tenancy.

Guest101

Look it's simple. You have a tenancy. You joined a student property. It would be assumed (correctly) the terms placed on you were the same as the other occupants.

Now if the deposit was never protected.... We could advice a surrender process.

But currently you have a tenancy, which is either fixed term, or rolling, and is either joint or individual. - Depending on what the other tenants have. Chances are its joint and fixed term.

And no, im not a landlord...

Pixie5740

Any deposit from joint tenants could just be registered under the lead tenant's name so the lead tenant would be the one receiving the PI.

G_M

You pay rent, and receive a property. You have a tenancy. There is a contract.

It may be a sole tenancy (contract for one room only, with other occupants having seperate contracts) or it may be a joint tenancy.

The fact there is no written document does not alter the above. The lack of signed document throws into some doubt:
* the terms of the contract
* and the type of contract.

In determining whether it is joint, or sole, a court would look at what is most likely. The judge would consider:
* what was said at the start by either side
* what is 'the norm' for a student house
* what contracts the other occupants are on
* any other relevant facts.

The fact that you were asked to go sign a document would be relevant, and the fact that the others signed it but you were "really busy at the time" would lead the judge to believe that this document formed the basis of the contract. And that by moving in,paying rent, you implicitly accepted it.

Now, you asked for "actual facts."

The truth is that there is no legal 'right answer' other than going to court and getting a judge's decision. All we can do here, or indeed all a solicitor can do, is try to anticipate what a judge would decide. Judges sometimes give unexpected rulings. Judges can be swayed by one side or the other's evidence. Indeed, judges even make mistakes.

But the legal issues, and probable outcome, is as above.

MBer13

But why is it assumed (surely there are lots of houses where individual rooms are let with different rent values and contract lengths?) that I would have the same contract as other tenants? And how am I supposed to know the terms in their agreement?!

This in fact is almost exactly my situation, and the answer given is that I just have to give one months notice?:

landlordlawblog.co.uk/2012/01/23/can-i-move-out-when-i-like-if-i-signed-no-contract/

I'm not saying I'm correct, I just wanted an actual explanation, rather than people telling me I'm wrong! There is so much conflicting information.
Also, please could you elaborate on the surrender process?

EDIT: sorry, posted before I saw your response. Thank you G_M, that explains it pretty clearly!

Also, I moved in after the initial tenancy started. The room was not advertised by the letting agent, and one of my (now) housemates showed me around the property. I then rang the letting agent to sort it. I returned to my course 4 weeks late so was catching up, it was all a bit of a rush. I just went in, gave my deposit and guarantor details, and moved all my stuff in. The tenancy agreement email came about a month later.

G_M

MBer13 wrote: »

Also, please could you elaborate on the surrender process?

If you mean Early Surrender, you speak to, or write to, the landlord or his authorised agent, requesing permission to surrender the tenancy on a given date, or whatever terms.

The LL responds, either
* agreeing
* refusing or
* proposing alternative terms /date

Once agreement is reached, either you rely on verbal agreement (and look where that gets you!) or you and the LL confirm it in writing.

If you mean notice to end the tenancy, you write to the address provided giving the appropriate notice. I suspect you will find the address on the document you failed to sign, which we all believe to form the basis of your tenancy, but of course, which might not.