help with choosing car for powerchair

cheesemouse_2

Hello everyone

I've browsed these forums for a while but decided to join as I have a question which I am sure you knowledgeable folk will be able to help me with

I have recently purchased a powerchair for getting out and about due to restricted mobility. However I can't take it anywhere yet because it won't go in my car (hatchback). I am aware that a hoist is needed to lift the powerchair in and out of a vehicle, but all I know so far is that an estate car or people carrier is required for this.

So I need to replace my existing car with one suitable for a hoist. But, I'm not sure whether 'any' estate or people carrier will do - the last thing I want to do is change the car then find that the new one isn't any more suitable.

So I'm really looking for advice on what sort of car to look for. It has to be automatic (pressing clutch and moving gearstick is not easy for me!) and I have a budget of up to £3000 - £3500 although I'd like to avoid spending the maximum if possible. Ideally I don't want too old a car (eg 9 or 10 years plus) unless it's quite a reliable make - because I don't intend to change this car for at least two or three years.

I've never driven an estate car and whenever I see one I always think they look extremely long - are they easy to maneouvre? Is a people carrier a better solution for me?

The boot of the car needs to take the hoist and the powerchair (I want to still be able to use the back seat, for shopping or the dog or what have you).

So.. there you go. Any and all ideas are welcome, even something 'outside the box' that I might not have thought of.

Thanks in advance


(Hopefully its fine that I've posted this in the Motoring section - if it should be in the Disability section instead could someone please move it)

CrazyRed

Hi,

As you've probably discovered, there isn't much information about for the less-able-bodied when looking for suitable transport.

I have had dealings with this company in the past, and found them extremely helpful and accommodating : http://www.bridgestreetmotorsales.co.uk/

They are specialist WAV (wheelchair accessible vehicle) dealers. Although I didn't end up purchasing from them (our circs changed slightly and we no longer needed a WAV) I got very, very close indeed to purchasing one of their cheaper vehicles and all through the process I couldn't have asked for anyone to be more attentive to our wants and needs.

These were my "second choice" of dealer if I couldn't have found anything suitable at Bridge : http://www.clarkemobility.com/

HTH

forgotmyname

A hoist is not always needed if you get a vehicle with a ramp and the chair can be partially folder and then using its motors to drive it up the ramp.

Is the budget including the adaptations required? I spotted a hoist on ebay that would fit most estate cars, But it wasnt cheap.
Add the fitting cost and a fair chunk of your budget will be gone.

agrinnall

Do you qualify for a Motability vehicle? If you do I'm sure they will help find something suitable, but even if you don't I notice that they have a facility to search for Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles on their website.

http://www.motability.co.uk/

cheesemouse_2

Thanks for replies so far - that was quick!

CrazyRed - I hadn't heard of WAV cars before so that's a new option I can consider, thanks

ForgotMyName - My budget is just for the car. I need to do this in stages - get the car, then the hoist later. (Of course if I could get both within budget I wouldn't complain!)

Agrinnall - I don't claim benefits (work full time) so to my knowledge I don't qualify for a Motability vehicle.


Setting aside the WAV idea for the time being (as I'll have to look into that further), what make/model of estate or people carrier is reliable / best to go for within my budget?

By the way I'd prefer a petrol car but I guess I would consider diesel if I really had to.

CrazyRed

To my eyes, in all honesty, if you're going to have to go for a hoist to get the powerchair into/out of the vehicle, then you might just as well look at the different types of WAV (from what you've said, personally, I'd be looking at one that you could "drive from chair" so you can drive the powerchair up the ramp and into the vehicle, secure the powerchair in place in the place of the driver's seat and drive the vehicle from that).

As others have said, the hoist itself isn't the costly bit - it's the fitting to the vehicle (which, often involves either raising the roof, or lowering the floor, or other substantial structural work. All of which will become very costly, very quickly, because there are so few firms in the country that can do it to a good enough standard and, as such, they charge a premium for doing so).

If your mobility is this poor, why on earth aren't you looking into claiming Disability Living Allowance (even 'just' the mobility component)/Personal Independence Payment and/or looking at getting yourself a Blue Badge? After all, severely restricted mobility is the main criteria for each of these (amongst others, before I get flamed on these forums) and there would certainly appear to be some form of entitlement to these from what you have described thus far of your mobility.

(DLA/PIP are not means-tested benefits and are available whether or not you work - they are payable to help with the ADDITIONAL costs of being disabled).

That way, should you receive the higher rate of mobility component, you would have access to the entire Motability range of vehicles which also include WAV's.

In terms of vehicles that could be suitable for you to purchase and then fit a hoist to, should you wish then I'd be suggesting you look at what Motability currently offers/has offered in the recent past as a WAV - the Citroen Berlingo Multispace, Ford Galaxy, Renault Kangoo, Chrysler Grand Voyager, Fiat Doblo, Mercedes Vaneo/Viano, Nissan NV200 and the such-like. However, as I said, please be aware that the fitting of a hoist can involve some substantial, more than likely structural, modifications to your 'new' car which will then severely impact on the potential resale value and resale market - there is no way you will be able to remove the hoist and it's structural modifications from the car and re-sell it as a 'normal' vehicle going forwards.

You will also find that a "mainstream" insurance company is unlikely to be interested in covering a vehicle that has been modified thus - you'd be looking at one of the specialists, like Fish Insurance, who are well-versed with disability modifications and will offer cover for them all.

Why struggle to drive the powerchair up to the car, struggle to transfer from the chair to the car, then store the chair within the car (assuming you can without assistance - I don't wish to appear rude, but if you've transferred yourself from one to the other, how on earth are you going to manage to get a (fairly heavy) powerchair safely stowed in your vehicle on your own, even with a hoist? - you've already had to transfer into the driver's seat, so you'd be looking at almost an "automatic arm" with stowing system - that definitely isn't cheap! then repeat the entire process when you get to work or your final destination? Surely the best option for yourself, given your restricted mobility and need/use of the powerchair would be to buy (own money) or lease (Motability - assuming you qualify - which I will assume for the purposes of this reply that you do) a vehicle that is fully-adapted for your needs already and you can literally raise the back door, lower the ramp (remotely, on most of them), drive up and into, lock yourself in place and drive off with no need for assistance from anyone else?

(In case anyone's wondering, I was looking to buy the wife a WAV before her condition deteriorated rapidly a few years back, therefore I did a LOT of this type of research into the different types of WAV, the different types of larger, wheelchair-accessible car, the options for each, the best option for us as a family versus the best option for her as a disabled person, etc., etc. and, as I said, almost bought one - I was looking at the Fiat Doblo at the time as that had the floorspace we needed for the mobility scooter she had). I've also just carried out this same research for a friend of mine who has MS and is now restricted to a powerchair through severe mobility issues but would like to maintain his independence and drive.....

CrazyRed

cheesemouse wrote: »

Setting aside the WAV idea for the time being (as I'll have to look into that further), what make/model of estate or people carrier is reliable / best to go for within my budget?

By the way I'd prefer a petrol car but I guess I would consider diesel if I really had to.

Ignoring what I've waffled on about above for now, I'd look at something with a powered rear door and a "captain's seat" as a driver's seat (much easier to get into when you have restricted mobility).

On that basis, the Chrysler Grand Voyager ticks a lot of the boxes and depreciates like a rock tumbling down Everest, so is available within your budget - a quick Autotrader search for 25 miles around a local address here shows 12 available, with a very decent one, 10 years old, for £2,895 - page 2 of the link attached

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/chrysler/grand_voyager/postcode/da28dx/radius/25/price-to/3500/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/quicksearch/true

HTH.

cheesemouse_2

CrazyRed - thanks very much for the detailed reply, I really appreciate it.

In answer to your questions- I haven't claimed anything because I honestly wasn't aware that the things you mention are available even for people who work.

Also - slightly off-topic but hopefully helps to explain - I am still struggling to come to terms with my lack of mobility. Maybe I'm stubborn, maybe I'm just determined, I don't know. But I just want to try and still have a normal life (or as normal as possible).

I hadn't considered the insurance aspect - good point. Also as for the hoist, the (albeit brief) research I had done thus far suggested that the hoists could be easily fitted and removed from cars, so I wasn't aware that there would be structural changes needed to my new car.

In terms of how I would get the powerchair into the car, well again I confess that I'd assumed the hoist would do all of the lifting, thus not requiring that from myself. I don't think I can post links, but the sort of thing I have been looking at is an Autochair or Brig Ayrd hoist.

(At this point I must admit that I hope to be able to buy one of these second hand once I find the correct vehicle (and assuming I don't end up going down the WAV route which as you say, might be more straightforward). I have seen hoists advertised secondhand, but again they don't specify specific cars, just "estate" or "people carrier".

You are not appearing rude - you are coming up with valid points which are already helping me and making me think. My mobility is such that I can walk a little distance but the more I walk the more fatigued and in pain I get (and joints loose and unstable). This is also why I need the new car to be automatic, because I cannot do constant changing of gears and pressing of clutch, these actions quickly fatigue me and cause pain.

But I am able to walk to/from the driver's seat of the car to the back to retrieve my powerchair once the hoist lowers it to the ground - hope that helps to clarify.

cheesemouse_2

I do like the look of that Chrysler Grand Voyager - is it a good make / reliable, etc do you (or anyone else) know?

CrazyRed

Hmmm. I'm not convinced by either of those options, to be truthful. The weight limit of 40kg, for a start, strikes me as pretty 'conservative' for a power-chair. Manual Transit chairs (lightweight, light-duty wheelchairs) are commonly 10kg on their own - I think a powerchair's going to be a bit closer to 60, especially when you take into account the batteries. I'll grant you, the 40kg hoists don't need much in terms of support - probably little more than the equivalent strengthening for a towbar - but anything that's capable of humping a powerchair's weight off the floor certainly isn't going to be happy with a couple of M12 bolts and a strengthening plate bolted to the boot floor for support!

(The "Olympian" 150kg hoist looks more like the one you'd need with a powerchair, incidentally)

Secondhand? And you're going to be dependent on this thing on a daily basis - possibly more so going forwards? Frankly, I wouldn't, unless the seller can both demonstrate the thing working and can come up with a valid, verified, test certificate for the weight-bearing parts of the hoist, including the hydraulics. You're talking about a lot of weight and the risk of significant damage to your only method of mobility if it slips, or fails. New ones are certified and tested.

No disrepect, but also please consider not only your needs now, but those in the future - during your planned lifetime for this car. In my experience of illnesses resultant in mobility issues, they rarely improve and what is suitable (and sufficient) today can become an unusable liability in 3-5 years' time, and impossible to re-sell.

Personally, I quite rate the Voyagers. I suspect they're not the cheapest to run, nor are they going to break world records for fuel consumption, but they are luxury barges that are spacious, comfortable and, seemingly, pretty reliable. Motability aren't daft - they wouldn't offer a car with a reputation of breaking down to their customers. There's a few reviews on the HonestJohn website - they don't seem significantly worse than any other vehicle in it's class, to be fair.

(Assuming you get higher rate mobility DLA/PIP, incidentally, the VED class won't matter as you'd be entitled to a Nil Rating for VED against the car)

cheesemouse_2

Today I've been browsing Autotrader and I can see that it is possible to buy a used WAV privately, and much more affordable than one from a dealership.

But.. I have never purchased a vehicle privately, only from a dealer.

So.. could I please get some tips and advice on how I would go about buying a car from a private seller? (Just in case I decide to go down this route).

I'm aware (from reading on here ) that there is no warranty or 'come back' if there is anything wrong with it, like there is with a dealer. But how do I make sure, to the best of my knowledge, that the car is fine?

Also, do I need to get some sort of a receipt from the seller to confirm I've paid? I imagine I would pay by cheque in this situation - is it usual to give the seller the cheque and wait for it to clear (thus running the risk of them taking the money and not giving me the car) or would the seller be happy for me to give them the cheque and take the car?