Coaching program with guaranteed outcomes

jodicaplin

I wonder if I can get some input regarding a situation I am currently dealing with.

At the end of December, I sought out a performance coach for assistance and treatment of social anxiety. I had three paid sessions with the practitioner and they were amazing. The fourth session wasn't too great as it turned out to be more of a sales session whereby we only discussed the possibility of embarking on a full program.

During this sales session, the practitioner presented a contract detailing the particulars of the program. Several times the practitioner noted that the outcomes were guaranteed and this is also confirmed in writing as part of the contract. The cost was £3730 and essentially consists of one 11 hour session and 3 one hour followup sessions concluding in April.

Long story short, I have now spent over 15 hours with this practitioner in total and have only two more one hour sessions remaining on the program. I have seen no resolution to my anxiety.

The program has taken a different approach to what I was expecting from the first three and it is unlikely that the guaranteed outcomes will be realised at this rate.

I have spoken briefly with CAB who have advised the following:

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Criminal Offence:
The trader’s actions could be considered a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Your rights and obligations:
On 01/10/2014 amendments were made to the Consumer Protection Regulations. These regulations now state that if a consumer is subject to an aggressive or misleading practice by a trader, they could have the right to ‘unwind’ the contract for a full refund.

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I am considering pursuing a claim, but wonder if I could get some advice.

1. What is the likelihood of getting a refund in this case?

2. Do I need to prove the guaranteed results have not been obtained? If so, how is this possible where psychological concerns are involved?

3. Finally, what action should I take if the practitioner refuses to accept my claim? Can I make a chargeback on my credit card? Would I need to attend court?

Thanks in advance.

bris

I don't see where the salesman used any aggressive tactics unless you count guaranteeing results as aggressive which I don't.


That leaves going to court and convincing a judge that the treatment didn't work and you want your money back due to the guarantee.


The practitioner will of course fight this so yes you will have to go to court to fight your case.


You can get your CC provider involved with a S75 claim but they too will want you to prove your case, the only way would be for the courts to decide.

hollydays

bris wrote: »

I don't see where the salesman used any aggressive tactics unless you count guaranteeing results as aggressive which I don't.


That leaves going to court and convincing a judge that the treatment didn't work and you want your money back due to the guarantee.


The practitioner will of course fight this so yes you will have to go to court to fight your case.


You can get your CC provider involved with a S75 claim but they too will want you to prove your case, the only way would be for the courts to decide.

The op States aggressive or misleading, so I expect he is referring to misleading practices .

Poppie68

Can't see a service like this could be seen as misleading if the desired outcome has not been achevied as such,as it is surely a subjective outcome? That said I would have thought that a contract that guarantees a positive outcome would also have a remedy in place if it fails?

daytona0

jodicaplin wrote: »

At the end of December, I sought out a performance coach for assistance and treatment of social anxiety. I had three paid sessions with the practitioner and they were amazing.

Sounds good, not unreasonable to assume that you were very engaged and enthusiastic about this improvement to your life and I can certainly understand why you would consider anyone who has been professional to be great.

The fourth session wasn't too great as it turned out to be more of a sales session whereby we only discussed the possibility of embarking on a full program.

Yea, this should be an instance where you either:

1. Realise that they want you as a client and as such you should expect some further discussion of sessions as a natural progression of the relationship.

2. Think about whether you had disproportionately paid for this 4th session if you received too much of a sales session. This may prompt someone to consider a smaller scale plan (like the one currently in place) or to terminate the relationship if you had paid for nothing on that 4th session.

During this sales session, the practitioner presented a contract detailing the particulars of the program. Several times the practitioner noted that the outcomes were guaranteed and this is also confirmed in writing as part of the contract.

Ok great, so what are these "outcomes" in the contract? Because, you see, it may be a subjective outcome (I doubt that your opinion of the program would carry a significant amount of weight because that is just a silly way to make a contract!) or it may be a more goal-orientated outcome which the provider may have sufficient evidence to prove that objectives were met... Without knowing the objectives we cannot comment properly.

The cost was £3730 and essentially consists of one 11 hour session and 3 one hour followup sessions concluding in April.

Did you really pay 3730 for 14 hours?! Oh my jesus!! I am in the wrong business...... I am baffled with the amount paid. It is actually kinda concerning and I would possibly ask you to contact your local GP instead to be totally honest as you can probably get similar help from them for free...

Long story short, I have now spent over 15 hours with this practitioner in total and have only two more one hour sessions remaining on the program. I have seen no resolution to my anxiety.

Yea well, you probably aren't going to see any resolution to your anxiety over such a short period of time. EVEN IF you do, IT MIGHT take a while to kick in, the course hasn't ended yet, you might be feeling naturally down (we all have lows at times of the month etc, and I'm not even talking about women lol). It all depends on the wording of this contract.

The program has taken a different approach to what I was expecting from the first three and it is unlikely that the guaranteed outcomes will be realised at this rate.

Do you have some sort of curriculum/guide which the provider gave you? Has it differed from this? What made you think it was going to be different to what it was? Why do you use the word "unlikely", which does not commit you to a distinct opinion?

I am considering pursuing a claim, but wonder if I could get some advice.

1. What is the likelihood of getting a refund in this case?

2. Do I need to prove the guaranteed results have not been obtained? If so, how is this possible where psychological concerns are involved?

3. Finally, what action should I take if the practitioner refuses to accept my claim? Can I make a chargeback on my credit card? Would I need to attend court?

Thanks in advance.

Firstly, you haven't even completed the course and you're talking about trying to get a refund.... I would be hopeful that a contract clause exists whereby should you not engage fully then your guarantee would be void because this course holds the guarantee that you will reach your objectives AT THE END and not halfway through. As you are posting this, you may be indicating that you do not wish to take this seriously so that you can get a claim on the go.

But points:

1. Depends on the objectives set out. If the provider has evidence of meeting objectives then no chance (unless you were coerced, or anything else illegal etc). If it is subjective (ie the objective was "for you to feel less socially anxious") then it again boils down to provider evidence, BUT you may have more scope.

2. I would imagine that you would. If they are subjective points then you have a chance, but not a strong chance because ultimately a service was provided. You probably have to show that the course was not worth the price you paid...

3. I would be hopeful that the CC company would knock you back because a service was provided. You'll probably need to take it to court. No harm speaking to CC though I guess.

jodicaplin

Thanks to all of you for the input and advice.

Since writing this thread, I have decided to see the program to its conclusion and cut my losses if I don't achieve the desired results. At the end of the day, it's only money and I made the decision to go through with it, no one forced me to sign up to it.

The contract was very thorough and specific, so I can put this to the practitioner when the final session comes to.

I was just panicking after having experienced an anxiety attack and lost my train of thought. Now that my senses are back, I realise this was a stupid thing to ask in the first place.

As a side note, having lived with anxiety for more than half my life £3730 for the promise of a guaranteed outcome seemed reasonable to me. I just hope he's truly confident in the guarantee.

daytona0

jodicaplin wrote: »

As a side note, having lived with anxiety for more than half my life £3730 for the promise of a guaranteed outcome seemed reasonable to me. I just hope he's truly confident in the guarantee.

Listen, I'm not prone to social anxiety but there is no way that someone would have 3730 of my hard earned cash for a 14 hour course to fix a similar issue! There are so so many more things you can do with that money and there are so many free resources at hand for SA (try forums first).


I just hope you go to a GP after this, regardless of outcome, because it is probably a sensible thing to do. Sod the vastly expensive courses!

jodicaplin

daytona0 wrote: »

Listen, I'm not prone to social anxiety but there is no way that someone would have 3730 of my hard earned cash for a 14 hour course to fix a similar issue! There are so so many more things you can do with that money and there are so many free resources at hand for SA (try forums first).


I just hope you go to a GP after this, regardless of outcome, because it is probably a sensible thing to do. Sod the vastly expensive courses!

I appreciate what you are saying, and having had this for 20 years, I have tried those routes you have suggested and more. It is unfortunate, but I guess you don't know what you would do until you have been pushed far enough. I was at my lowest point when I sought out this coach, so I wasn't in the right mind frame to begin with.

In any case, I do appreciate the input. If only to bring me to my senses. :mad:

timbstoke

jodicaplin wrote: »

Thanks to all of you for the input and advice.

Since writing this thread, I have decided to see the program to its conclusion and cut my losses if I don't achieve the desired results. At the end of the day, it's only money and I made the decision to go through with it, no one forced me to sign up to it.

The contract was very thorough and specific, so I can put this to the practitioner when the final session comes to.

I was just panicking after having experienced an anxiety attack and lost my train of thought. Now that my senses are back, I realise this was a stupid thing to ask in the first place.

As a side note, having lived with anxiety for more than half my life £3730 for the promise of a guaranteed outcome seemed reasonable to me. I just hope he's truly confident in the guarantee.

Does this contract mention the guarantee? If so, does it mention the remedy the guarantee offers? Does it mention your obligations in regard to the course? I'm sure that when you're offering treatment for a definition as wooly as 'anxiety', it would be very easy to make it watertight by including requirements that the client must carry out on their own, without which the guarantee wouldn't apply. Even if it does, you can then fulfil the guarantee by offering a number of additional sessions - guarantee doesn't always mean money back guarantee.

I recall a dating site a while back that said "We guarantee you'll find someone in 6 months or we'll give you another 6 months for free" - great, so you can get twice as much access to a site that doesn't work for the same price!

paddyrg

For just shy of £4k for 15 hrs, I'd be asking for a refund under the guarantee. If they say 'but you're cured', small claims court - they'll almost certainly settle out of court. If they say 'well, we'll carry on for free until you're cured', then take them up on that, and if they don't make progress in a few weeks, remind them of the court option.

I'm pretty sure anyone charging £4k for 2 days of quack cure will know they're being exploitative and be wary of a judge telling them so.