Late care home fees

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Deaths, Funerals & Probate
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treecoltreecol Forumite
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edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Deaths, Funerals & Probate
My dad had 6 weeks respite whilst we all moved from his house to this new one Last May). He had 4 weeks of respite but because the sale got delayed, he had an extra 2 weeks which apparently couldn't be counted as respite. He wasn't self funding so paid a contribution of £160 per week towards fees. When he came home he had deteriorated & we were preoccupied with his care. He passed away at the beginning of September. Just before Christmas I had a bill for his fees to the care home - £160 a week for 6 weeks. I wrote & told them he'd passed away & aside from this house which he'd left to me & DH there were no other funds in his estate. They have been wonderful & waived the bill saying they should have dealt with it when he was alive & had income.
But now social services have called saying as a financial assessment wasn't done before he was admitted it needs to be done now to work out his liability for the stay. They say they know he's died but still want the info I'm his executor & they want this done over the phone. I'm going to ask them to put it in writing, but what is the liability as it wasn't done at the time & no forms were signed saying I would accept liability on his behalf as I had POA.

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  • dzug1dzug1 Forumite
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    Strictly, your father is liable - and therefore his estate.


    Whether they will be willing to forego the money - pass. The estate does have assets in the form of the house so they could be hard nosed.
  • edited 22 February 2015 at 8:17PM
    G6JNSG6JNS Forumite
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    edited 22 February 2015 at 8:17PM
    treecol wrote: »
    My dad had 6 weeks respite whilst we all moved from his house to this new one Last May). He had 4 weeks of respite but because the sale got delayed, he had an extra 2 weeks which apparently couldn't be counted as respite. He wasn't self funding so paid a contribution of £160 per week towards fees. When he came home he had deteriorated & we were preoccupied with his care. He passed away at the beginning of September. Just before Christmas I had a bill for his fees to the care home - £160 a week for 6 weeks. I wrote & told them he'd passed away & aside from this house which he'd left to me & DH there were no other funds in his estate. They have been wonderful & waived the bill saying they should have dealt with it when he was alive & had income.
    But now social services have called saying as a financial assessment wasn't done before he was admitted it needs to be done now to work out his liability for the stay. They say they know he's died but still want the info I'm his executor & they want this done over the phone. I'm going to ask them to put it in writing, but what is the liability as it wasn't done at the time & no forms were signed saying I would accept liability on his behalf as I had POA.

    So the house forms the majority or all of the estate? If so then the debts are payable from that unless the beneficiaries can find the cash
  • dancingfairydancingfairy Forumite
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    Presumably they want to try and prove your dad should have been self funding and would therefore owe the care home at the private rate? Do you know if the council has paid the care home any of it?
    It's good the care home have said (in writing, I hope) that they are happy to write off the debt. I assume the council have paid the care home something like 300-400 a week and feel that they should reclaim it and leaving the home to go after you? Only problem is that you would end up paying private rates at 800-1000 a week, not the local authority rate which is 400-500 :(
    It might be worth seeking the help of someone like Ageuk who can help you through it all.
    df
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  • treecoltreecol Forumite
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    I will talk to AgeUK tomorrow. He definitely wasn't self funding as he only had state pension & attendance allowance coming in. Obviously I have all his paperwork to prove this. I just really wish they had done his at the time - his income would have easily paid for it at the time. Thanks for trying to assist.
  • dancingfairydancingfairy Forumite
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    What a mess council cutbacks have caused :(
    It sounds like from what you've said that he wasn't self funding so it doesn't sound like he'd owe anything apart from the client contribution (which the home have agreed to write off).
    I don't know whether you can argue that it should have been done in May or whether you need to go through the motions to prove he wasn't self funding and then they'd go away, hopefully ageuk will help.
    Sorry things are difficult.
    df
    Making my money go further with MSE :j
    How much can I save in 2012 challenge
    75/1200 :eek:
  • midnight_expressmidnight_express Forumite
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    You only get funded by social services if they do an assessment and agree to fund. This is normally done before someone enters a home. In this case it appears this never happened.
  • MojisolaMojisola Forumite
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    treecol wrote: »
    My dad had 6 weeks respite whilst we all moved from his house to this new one Last May).

    He had 4 weeks of respite but because the sale got delayed, he had an extra 2 weeks which apparently couldn't be counted as respite.

    He wasn't self funding so paid a contribution of £160 per week towards fees.

    But now social services have called saying as a financial assessment wasn't done before he was admitted it needs to be done now to work out his liability for the stay.

    It sounds as if the council would have paid for the first four weeks as respite but because he stayed for six weeks, they are trying to claim for the extra two weeks?

    Remind the council that even if he had gone in as a permanent resident, the value of his home would have been ignored for the first twelve weeks (look up '12 week disregard'). If all he had was his weekly income and his home then the council would have had to pay the care home (up to their limit) for the first twelve weeks.
  • treecoltreecol Forumite
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    Age UK have been really helpful. They say that everyone is entitled to 8 weeks temporary care in the form of respite - not what SS tell me. Also that as an original financial assessment was done 3 years ago when Dad 1st had respite, & SS admitted him to the care home this last time on the basis of that, they should not being carrying out a retrospective assessment after his death.
    They said it could be that as a house move was the reason for the respite stay, they may just want to know if any lump sum was released from the house sale/purchase - which it wasn't. Also the house was disregarded as it was only a temporary stay & would remain disregarded. They cannot suddenly claim it as an asset & it has also been our home, as his carers for a number of years.
    But now I have the facts, I await the call & will update here after.
  • treecoltreecol Forumite
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    Well what a result!! SS have said as his stay was 8 weeks, they are treating the final 2 a temporary care which would mean less contribution from dad. However as he has passed away, they will not be pursuing the bill (which is a very small amount) So both care home & SS have waived the bills. Hurrah!!! There is some compassion out there after all.
  • MojisolaMojisola Forumite
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    treecol wrote: »
    Well what a result!! SS have said as his stay was 8 weeks, they are treating the final 2 a temporary care which would mean less contribution from dad. However as he has passed away, they will not be pursuing the bill (which is a very small amount) So both care home & SS have waived the bills. Hurrah!!! There is some compassion out there after all.

    Good result.
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