Lodger leaving without notice

mad92

Hi,

I live in a rented house, with the tenancy shared between me and 2 others. We sublet two of our rooms to two other people (this is acknowledged by our landlord), so 5 of us live there all together.

We've had problems with one of our lodgers for the past few months - just petty things, her complaining about the "state" of the house despite never helping out with the cleaning, and her general attitude towards the rest of us is just a bit off. Anyway, she has turned around today and said she is leaving as she "feels bullied" and will be gone by the end of the week. This has left us in a bit of trouble as the 3 of us tenants are students and can't afford to cover her rent (~£300/mth) as well as our own, and it'll take us a while to find a replacement. Does she need to have left us more notice??

We'd originally looked to sign the property with her as a tenant, but she was getting really wound up saying she wasn't sure on work commitments so we felt we were doing her a favour to sublet. So just the 3 of us signed and she told us she'd put together a promisory note to tie her to the property (her mothers a property solicitor) with rent etc. but ofc this never showed. We had initially agreed that if she moved before the end of our tenancy, she'd pay until we found a replacement - but unfortunately this was all verbally, there was nothing written. She pays us monthly, and last paid on the 1st of the month, so basically has only given us 1 weeks notice.

Additionally, we paid a deposit (1 months rent) to our landlord, and she paid her share of this (£300). She is now demanding that we owe it back to her and she wants it now. We've told her this isn't going to be possible because we will have to wait for our tenancy to end (August) before we can get it back. But would it be possible to keep this to cover the rent we're losing with her leaving so suddenly? I was under the impression reasonable notice is needed for a lodger to leave, usually about the period of rent payment (so in this case, 1 months notice)?

Just wanted some general advice about what to do, and to try and work out where we stand here (especially if she were to try and take us to small claims to get her deposit back?). Hopefully not getting anything written isn't going to be an expensive mistake?

Many thanks

pyueck

mad92 wrote: »

Hi,

I live in a rented house, with the tenancy shared between me and 2 others. We sublet two of our rooms to two other people (this is acknowledged by our landlord), so 5 of us live there all together.

We've had problems with one of our lodgers for the past few months - just petty things, her complaining about the "state" of the house despite never helping out with the cleaning, and her general attitude towards the rest of us is just a bit off. Anyway, she has turned around today and said she is leaving as she "feels bullied" and will be gone by the end of the week. This has left us in a bit of trouble as the 3 of us tenants are students and can't afford to cover her rent (~£300/mth) as well as our own, and it'll take us a while to find a replacement. Does she need to have left us more notice??

We'd originally looked to sign the property with her as a tenant, but she was getting really wound up saying she wasn't sure on work commitments so we felt we were doing her a favour to sublet. So just the 3 of us signed and she told us she'd put together a promisory note to tie her to the property (her mothers a property solicitor) with rent etc. but ofc this never showed. We had initially agreed that if she moved before the end of our tenancy, she'd pay until we found a replacement - but unfortunately this was all verbally, there was nothing written. She pays us monthly, and last paid on the 1st of the month, so basically has only given us 1 weeks notice.

Additionally, we paid a deposit (1 months rent) to our landlord, and she paid her share of this (£300). She is now demanding that we owe it back to her and she wants it now. We've told her this isn't going to be possible because we will have to wait for our tenancy to end (August) before we can get it back. But would it be possible to keep this to cover the rent we're losing with her leaving so suddenly? I was under the impression reasonable notice is needed for a lodger to leave, usually about the period of rent payment (so in this case, 1 months notice)?

Just wanted some general advice about what to do, and to try and work out where we stand here (especially if she were to try and take us to small claims to get her deposit back?). Hopefully not getting anything written isn't going to be an expensive mistake?

Many thanks

Is there a lodgers agreement, without one there is little you can do.

The deposit is between the tenants and the landlord. As she is not a tenant if she paid you £300 and you don't have a valid legal claim to it you should return it to her.

quotememiserable

If you have a tenenacy agreement, then it will tell you who has to do what. If don't, and this was an informal agreement, then it's all down to what is reasonable if it came to court later.
It seems to me it would be reasonable to expect some notice, say a month, so you it could be seen as reasonable to consider she owes you a month's rent and you owe her the deposit in one month's time, and that these two sums pretty much net off.
You should ask a solicitor, unless one appears around here.

Annisele

If you don't have a written agreement, then you're all bound by the verbal agreement you had. If it ends up in court, the problem you're going to have is proving what that verbal agreement said...

Notice periods for lodgers are often (not always) the same as rental periods. But, you say yourself you thought she should have given "reasonable" notice - which suggests you never actually came to an agreement about it.

If you haven't actually got the £300, you can't pay it back to her. So, you might as well tell her that the notice period is meant to be one month, and you'll keep the deposit in lieu of the missing rent. (If you had the £300, I might say you'd be better to pay it to her to get shot of her - it's miserable living with someone when you don't want to).

I don't know how council tax works in HMOs with both non-students and students - possibly worth checking if the bill will go down now there's only one non-student left?

CIS

As a HMO the landlord gets the bill - because their is still a non-student in the property the council tax charge will not alter. If the non-student left then a student exemption would apply.

jayson043

Keep it simple. Let the tenant leave, give the deposit and find a new tenant. As your subletting treat it like a business.

mad92

Thanks for you help, unfortunately we have nothing as a written/lodgers agreement. Won't be making that mistake again!

Annisele wrote: »

If you haven't actually got the £300, you can't pay it back to her. So, you might as well tell her that the notice period is meant to be one month, and you'll keep the deposit in lieu of the missing rent. (If you had the £300, I might say you'd be better to pay it to her to get shot of her - it's miserable living with someone when you don't want to).

^Yes I think this is what we'll end up doing. Hopefully we can get someone else signed up asap, then deduct our loss of rent (within the month) from her deposit. We don't get it back til August so she'll have to wait til then anyway. I think that seems fair?

pyueck

mad92 wrote: »

Thanks for you help, unfortunately we have nothing as a written/lodgers agreement. Won't be making that mistake again!



^Yes I think this is what we'll end up doing. Hopefully we can get someone else signed up asap, then deduct our loss of rent (within the month) from her deposit. We don't get it back til August so she'll have to wait til then anyway. I think that seems fair?

You have no agreement, so who know's what is fair. Personally I think you should give her back her £300 as you have currently no legal right to keep it. Legally when the landlord returns your deposit is completely irrelevant. If you literally don't have the £300, then fine she becomes a creditor of yours, and you are therefore liable to her enforcing this in the courts if she chooses.

You say she should give you notice, but she is not a tenant at the property she is an informal lodger with no agreement. Yes OK she has been paying to stay at a house you are renting, and maybe a judge would agree this means that somehow this makes her a lodger and should give notice, but hmm I doubt it. I think a judge would order you to repay the £300.

However if you are willing to risk it, keep the £300 and see if your I assume ex friend will go to court for it. If you are prepared to ruin your friendship this may be the best way for you.

Mojisola

mad92 wrote: »

We've had problems with one of our lodgers for the past few months - just petty things, her complaining about the "state" of the house despite never helping out with the cleaning, and her general attitude towards the rest of us is just a bit off.

Anyway, she has turned around today and said she is leaving as she "feels bullied" and will be gone by the end of the week.

So just the 3 of us signed and she told us she'd put together a promisory note to tie her to the property (her mothers a property solicitor) with rent etc. but ofc this never showed.

You've been royally stitched up.

Learn from it - get the agreement in writing in future before taking in a lodger.

G_M

1st - people should stop referring to her as a tenant. She isn't, she's your lodger.

Since no notice period seems to have been agreed, you cannot enforce one. A week seems reasonable.

She's paid a £300 deposit. She paid it to you as you are ger landlord (she did not pay it to your landlord). It is her money so you owe it to her, unless she has caused damage or owes rent. She has no rent arrears, and as for rent in lieu of notice, see my comments above.

Saying you cannot pay her back the deposit till you get it back from your LL at the end of your tenancy is a red herring: your contractual relationship to her is completely independant of your contractual relationship wih your LL.

Taking in lodgers is inherantly more fluid, less stable, than letting a property.

As for the advice by some to enure next time you have a written agreement requiring a months notice, well, that's an option - but my advice to LLs taking in lodgers is generally to make it a week. Nothing worse than sharing your home for a whole month once relations have broken down.........

jjlandlord

Common law rules on notices to quit would still apply to an excluded licence or tenancy, I think, if only regarding the duration of the notice period.

Certainly, since OP isn't able to refund the deposit at the moment that should be his line.