Notice period

UnsureTenant

The fixed term of my AST ended a few days ago. I now believe I am on a statutory periodic tenancy - although see other thread for some discussion about that...

A few days prior to the end of the fixed term I gave notice that I intend to leave the property at the end of the first month of the SPT.

My landlord is arguing the point that I am required to give 2 months notice. I have explained my position (I think that as a SPT only one month notice required) but it is falling on deaf ears.

Having spent a lot of time trying to research my situation I have not found a conclusive answer about who is right in this situation. I believe my landlord is of the opinion that 2 months notice is always required even after the expiry of the fixed term. That has been disucssed before in the other thread linked above.

Could I have some opinions on my situation?

I'm in England.

G_M

UnsureTenant wrote: »

The fixed term of my AST ended a few days ago. I now believe I am on a statutory periodic tenancy - although see other thread for some discussion about that...
without looking back at the other thread, yes, almost certainly a SPT. (could be a CPT ie contractual)

A few days prior to the end of the fixed term I gave notice that I intend to leave the property at the end of the first month of the SPT.
Your notice was invalid. You cannot give notice to end a tenancy before it has begun.
Since your SPT did not commence till "a few days" after you gave notice, that notice had no (legal) meaning.

My landlord is arguing the point that I am required to give 2 months notice.
That may be due to the fact that you have a CPT, not a SPT???

I have explained my position (I think that as a SPT only one month notice required) but it is falling on deaf ears.
A SPT requires 1 month notice ending with a tenancy period (so this could be anything up to 1 day short of 2 months depending on timing).

Having spent a lot of time trying to research my situation I have not found a conclusive answer about who is right in this situation. I believe my landlord is of the opinion that 2 months notice is always required even after the expiry of the fixed term.
Ah! He may be confused. In a SPT, the landlord must give two months notice (but not the tenant)
That has been disucssed before in the other thread linked above.

Could I have some opinions on my situation?

I'm in England.

1) Your notice was invalid so must be re-served.

2) For details of how much notice is required in a SPT (by landlord or tenant) read:

Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)

3) Is this a SPT at all? Or a CPT?

Does your tenancy agreement have any clauses saying what will happen when it ends? If yes, please quote them in full. You may have a 'Contractual Periodic Tenancy' (which may specify 2 months notice).

4) of course, as in all cases, the ideal solution is for both sides to be reasonable, discuss their respective preferences, compromise, and agree a mutually acceptable tenancy end-date.......

UnsureTenant

Thanks G_M, in the thread linked I mentioned the wording of the AST, it specifically states that the tenancy ends on a date, but then goes "month to month":

The Landlord lets to the Tenant the Premises for a period of 12 months. The Tenancy shall start on and include (date) and shall end on and include (date+355), and thereafter month to month, but subject to the following break clause.

Upon further investigation the TA defines:

"Term" or "Tenancy" includes any extension or continuation of the contractual Tenancy or any statutory periodic Tenancy arising after the expiry of the original Term.

It sounds like you suggest that even if I was on a SPT it is not valid to leave after the first month as you cannot serve notice in time. Whenever I refer to months I am referring to the periods rather than to calendar months.

If so, it's unfortunate but I can accept defeat if I am genuinely incorrect!

Thanks for your help.

jjlandlord

I'd serve a new notice ASAP because, if your first notice is invalid and refused then your landlord is entitled to consider that the periodic tenancy continues until you serve a new, valid notice.

G_M

Looks like a CPT.
So the required notice period, for both sides, is whatever is specified in the contract. What does it say about notice?

(not the Break Clause - that has already been and gone).

UnsureTenant

G_M wrote: »

Looks like a CPT.
So the required notice period, for both sides, is whatever is specified in the contract. What does it say about notice?

(not the Break Clause - that has already been and gone).

Notice period is listed as 2 months/periods.

I thought perhaps it was a SPT based on this:

"Term" or "Tenancy" includes any extension or continuation of the contractual Tenancy or any statutory periodic Tenancy arising after the expiry of the original Term.

Sounds like I may be wrong, and I appreciate the advice.

UnsureTenant

One further question, can I move out before the end of the full 2 months notice period if the landlord agrees to perform the checkout early? I would pay rent up until the end of the notice period.

Can I read the meters when I move out and not be liable for any usage after that point? What about council tax - is that still payable?

G_M

The Landlord lets to the Tenant the Premises for a period of 12 months. The Tenancy shall start on and include (date) and shall end on and include (date+355), and thereafter month to month, but subject to the following break clause.

So the contract you signed stated it would continue monthly after the fixed term ended. That is a contractual agreement (CPT).

The other clause is in my view redundant, probably added as a catch-all.

Notice period is listed as 2 months/periods.

Which?

can I move out before the end of the full 2 months notice period if the landlord agrees to perform the checkout early? I would pay rent up until the end of the notice period.

Can I read the meters when I move out and not be liable for any usage after that point? What about council tax - is that still payable?

Yes - if you agree it with the L!

There are various scenarios:

1) no real agreement. You remain liable to end of tenancy/notice period. You can return the keys but that has no legal significance. You remain liable for utilities, CT etc. Beware if your contract has a tipulation that the property must not be left 'unoccupied' for mor than X days - this is a common insurance requirement.

2) you agree to an Early Surrender on a specified date. You return the keys on that date, and all your liability (and the tenancy) end on that date

3) a half-way mish-mash. The tenancy continues to the end of the Notice Period (as 1 above) but you agree that from on earlier date you will return the keys and the LL will inspect. The LL agrees to accept the condition of the property (and utility costs?) from that date.

The final option is messy. LL may also try to re-let the property and agree to stop charging rent if he gets a new tenant. Issues arise if, say, you want to re-enter or even move back since the tenancy has not ended.

An alternative is to agree an Early Surrender as 2) above, but conditional on you, the tenant, paying compensation in an agreed amount - for example the amount of rent you would have paid had the tenancy continued as in 1) above......

Whatever you agree, get it in writing!

UnsureTenant

Thanks for all the replies. I have agreed with the landlord that I would pay the rent until the 2 months notice expires.


He has agreed to an early checkout, I also requested that if the property is let earlier could he refund me any overlap period in the rent which he did agree to.


Our solution does fall under option 3 unfortunately, however I will not need to re-enter the property after I've left.


I understand from the agency that a new tenant is already lined up for the property. I should think there will be no empty period after I leave for more than maybe 1 day. Is there any protection against the landlord receiving two sets of rent for that period or is that his prerogative? i.e. he doesn't refund me any overlap and claims there was none.

G_M

I may be nit-picking, and worrying about nothing but

UnsureTenant wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I have agreed with the landlord that I would pay the rent until the 2 months notice expires.
If you are paying 'rent' then
* the tenancy has not ended
* you remain liable for utilities, CT, any damage etc
* the LL cannot let to anyone else (unless a further agreement is reached for an Early Surrender)

He has agreed to an early checkout, I also requested that if the property is let earlier could he refund me any overlap period in the rent which he did agree to.
Get confirmed in writing

I understand from the agency that a new tenant is already lined up for the property. I should think there will be no empty period after I leave for more than maybe 1 day.
:rotfl:
easy for them to say - the proof of the pudding is....
Be prepared for delays - after all, the LL/agent has no incentive to minimise the overla since you are paying rent anyway.


Is there any protection against the landlord receiving two sets of rent for that period or is that his prerogative? i.e. he doesn't refund me any overlap and claims there was none.

* If you have paid rent as you say, and LL moves in a new tenant without your consent, that would be an illegal eviction
* if you have written confirmation of your agreement re rent rebate, you could sue

Always get everything in writing.