Loft conversion, building regulations - First Time Buyer

purplestar133

I am a first time buyer currently in the "informal tender process" having put the same offer in as someone else. The house has a loft conversion and I've been advised by a family member to ask to see the building regulations in relation to the loft conversion.

We spoke to the vendor about this on our second viewing and she said it was covered by an insurance policy - I didn't really know what she meant.

I've asked the estate agent for confirmation and she's said: "the vendor has advised me that building regulations were not in place at the time of the loft conversion, which took place prior to the vendor's purchase of xxxxxx Road.

To satisfy the conditions of the vendors own purchase a lack of building regulations consent indemnity schedule was purchased by the previous owner. The policy covers more than double the property rebuild cost and increases in value in line with anticipated inflation. This policy is recognised in law and by mortgage providers and insurance companies alike."

My question is is "the lack of buildings regulations consent indemnity schedule" difficult to get hold of or expensive? What is it?! Re-reading it I think that the person selling the house to me, made the person that sold it to her buy the policy before buying the house. So I should also make her buy it shouldn't I? Is this likely to be an obstacle to the sale?

The other problem is the deadline for them receiving my final offer is tomorrow at 6pm - I have only received this information today, so not much time.

lincroft1710

Indemnity insurance won't help you if the loft floor collapses because the joists aren't strong enough. Building regs are in place for a reason - primarily that any construction is done to a good, efficient and safe standard.

Beware of any loft conversion without building regs, even if you do buy you could have problems when selling on.

Hoploz

This type of indemnity would normally be transferable, so each owner passes it on. Only the first person to take it out pays for the policy.

How long ago was the work done? If it was long ago either it could have been done before building regs existed. If there aren't any signs of cracks etc then the likelihood is it is reasonably sound. However, you should satisfy yourself in regard to this, and items such as fire escapes, access, ventilation, electrical/gas/plumbing works etc. It would be difficult to find out the reason for it lacking a completion certificate - it could have been inspected along the work but never had the final visit, or it could be a total DIY bodge job. You won't know if you can't speak to the person who did it.

purplestar133

Hoploz wrote: »

This type of indemnity would normally be transferable, so each owner passes it on. Only the first person to take it out pays for the policy.

How long ago was the work done? If it was long ago either it could have been done before building regs existed. If there aren't any signs of cracks etc then the likelihood is it is reasonably sound. However, you should satisfy yourself in regard to this, and items such as fire escapes, access, ventilation, electrical/gas/plumbing works etc. It would be difficult to find out the reason for it lacking a completion certificate - it could have been inspected along the work but never had the final visit, or it could be a total DIY bodge job. You won't know if you can't speak to the person who did it.

Thanks. I'm not sure how to proceed now.

It looks sound but I can't really tell from looking. One wall is bare brick. It has a spiral staircase leading up to it which the vendor said another viewer had brought an architect to look at, who was impressed. Not sure how much I can believe that! They have been using it as their master bedroom so must be pretty sturdy.

I don't know how long ago it was done or by who. I can ask the estate agent to ask the vendor but I doubt the vendor will know as it was done before she moved in 8 years ago. Plus the deadline for my best offer is 6pm. Nice one, estate agents, for making me rush the biggest decision of my life!

What does the indemnity do then? Is it insurance? If so, what does it cover you for?

Would a survey notify me of any problems with the loft?

drdpj

The indemnity policy just covers you if the council decides to go after the owner for lack of building regs and get the whole thing ripped out - a condition of the policy will be that you don't bring the conversion to the attention of the council.

Even if it's held up "so far", there are a few things to be concerned about - for example the strength of the floor, whether a steel was put into the roof ridge for a dormer conversion, exit routes in case of a fire etc. I suspect a spiral staircase into a loft conversion won't actually be building regs compliant with regard to fire (but I'm not an expert).

You could get a surveyor to check it out, but they may not be able to see all the relevant bits of the structure that need to be checked, and hence if you want to be absolutely sure it's sound someone will need to make holes in things.

The next best thing to a completion certificate is having the structure "regularised" with the council. This means making holes again and making sure it meets regs. Unfortunately it might cost a fortune to bring it up to standard and, as you've asked the council to look at it, it will render the indemnity policy invalid and it won't be possible to get another.

Personally speaking I wouldn't be happy buying a converted loft without regs (we have one in our current house, and made sure that the vendors got the completion certificate). Firstly it's the potential safety issues, but secondly it's going to possibly be a pain to sell it on.

(I really need to emphasise that this is just my opinion, and many other people wouldn't give a monkey's!)

DRP

We bought a house that (at the time of viewing) did not have building regs for the loft conversion.

We told the vendor we needed her to get the loft regularised (i.e. retrospective building regs approval). A council inspector came and made some holes in the roof and floor to check joists and insulation, and stipulated some improvements (tile vents, fire-proof paint on all doors, extra staircase spindles) In total this cost her 2 or 3 grand.

As others have posted, the indemnity insurance isn't worth anything - as i understand it, all it covers is if the council comes to tell you to take it down. The chances of this happening are nil. Your vendor may have to 'top up' the indemnity policy to reflect the increased value of the property since the policy was purchased some years ago.


EDIT: cross posted with drdpj - agree with everything s/he said.

purplestar133

DRP wrote: »

We bought a house that (at the time of viewing) did not have building regs for the loft conversion.

We told the vendor we needed her to get the loft regularised (i.e. retrospective building regs approval). A council inspector came and made some holes in the roof and floor to check joists and insulation, and stipulated some improvements (tile vents, fire-proof paint on all doors, extra staircase spindles) In total this cost her 2 or 3 grand.


EDIT: cross posted with drdpj - agree with everything s/he said.

So did the vendor make the improvements then?

DRP

purplestar133 wrote: »

So did the vendor make the improvements then?

They did! The couple of grand or so was the total cost for all the work plus regularisation.

purplestar133

DRP wrote: »

They did! The couple of grand or so was the total cost for all the work plus regularisation.

I think that's the only way forward for me as, now I've got doubts in my head, I won't be able to settle in and feel ok in the house. The problem is, that the vendor probably won't take my offer with those stipulations in place. It's not as though the offer is going to blow them out of the water.

gagahouse

drdpj wrote: »

The indemnity policy just covers you if the council decides to go after the owner for lack of building regs and get the whole thing ripped out - a condition of the policy will be that you don't bring the conversion to the attention of the council.

Even if it's held up "so far", there are a few things to be concerned about - for example the strength of the floor, whether a steel was put into the roof ridge for a dormer conversion, exit routes in case of a fire etc. I suspect a spiral staircase into a loft conversion won't actually be building regs compliant with regard to fire (but I'm not an expert).

You could get a surveyor to check it out, but they may not be able to see all the relevant bits of the structure that need to be checked, and hence if you want to be absolutely sure it's sound someone will need to make holes in things.

The next best thing to a completion certificate is having the structure "regularised" with the council. This means making holes again and making sure it meets regs. Unfortunately it might cost a fortune to bring it up to standard and, as you've asked the council to look at it, it will render the indemnity policy invalid and it won't be possible to get another.

Personally speaking I wouldn't be happy buying a converted loft without regs (we have one in our current house, and made sure that the vendors got the completion certificate). Firstly it's the potential safety issues, but secondly it's going to possibly be a pain to sell it on.

(I really need to emphasise that this is just my opinion, and many other people wouldn't give a monkey's!)

Is the same true for a basement conversion? My vendor doesn't seem to able to produce a completion certificate.

Hoploz

Well a basement isn't going to fall down.

... But if they have not supported the house properly you could be in for BIG trouble!