Appeal as the driver (Company Vehicle)

dbgregg

Hi,

I'm just a bit concerned about how to word the NTK appeal - it says on the Newbies thread to just take out any mention of the keeper, however there is no example template and I'm worried about getting it wrong.

I have done so far:

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' on these main grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with the driver is denied.

Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you treat consumers visiting their premises. The landowner will be made fully aware of this matter and your response, which I will forward to their CEO when I complain in writing and via social media, as appropriate. Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.

The purpose of this communication is:

1. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

2. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.

You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 1 and 2 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed £100.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,



Have I taken out everything necessary/too much/anything need to be added?

It's a PCN (no windscreen ticket) from Euro Car Parks.

Many thanks,

dbgregg

Redx

just remove the "rant part from the NEWBIES sticky thread template, nothing else

you are appealing as KEEPER, not driver

you are the keeper, for all they know I could have been the driver
never reveal the driver as POFA 2012 may apply

doesnt matter if you were driving, or me , or coupon-mad, its still an appeal as keeper because you are the KEEPER of the vehicle for the hire company or your company or the lease company (or whoever)

never add who the driver is, never infer it, never allude to it , never reveal it either advertently or inadvertently

only you know what you have removed as you didnt leave it in, in blue or red or whatever

just make sure you have not added something you shouldnt have, nor removed something that should be in there , if unsure , only remove the rant parts, they are the bits that dont legally matter as they are having a "dig" at the PPC

cant see the part you say it says

I see the following

IF you write your own wording be careful not to imply if you were driving - so no adding a naïve 'I would have paid' or 'I have a permit but forgot it' or 'I paid by phone' or 'I wouldn't have parked there if...' which is all utterly pointless mitigation anyway!


************************************************** ************************************************** *


Want a copy & paste template appeal that works? Use this version, written from the 'KEEPER' which suits all cases. Yes it needs your postal address, and yes it needs your name as keeper.

If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car) then of course remove the wording about 'not naming the driver' and anything about the POFA 2012 which only protects keepers.

* COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

In the case of a company car or hire car, the above advice differs. You would have to appeal EARLY to hook the PPC in your direction, before they get a chance to get the keeper's details from the DVLA or equivalent. You should also warn the owner/keeper (Fleet Manager) not to pay if they do get a letter about it because they have no business to get involved in a fake PCN you have already appealed as driver, and you won't reimburse them if they are daft enough to pay it.

If the hire/lease co has named you as the driver that is a good thing as it removes them from the loop entirely and then you can follow the above advice as appropriate to your case - but check and see if they have charged an admin fee. Challenge that admin fee with the Fleet Manager, Hire firm or your HR Manager, if your car use t&cs do not support this deduction for a mere invoice (as opposed to a fine/penalty).

just because a company names you as driver doesnt mean you were driving, they are actually naming the keeper as they have no idea who was driving

so it says

Use this version, written from the 'KEEPER' which suits all cases. Yes it needs your postal address, and yes it needs your name as keeper.

If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car) then of course remove the wording about 'not naming the driver' and anything about the POFA 2012 which only protects keepers.

dbgregg

Many thanks for clearing this up, just to confirm I put my name/address on this even though I am not the registered keeper of the vehicle, as my company will "name" me the keeper?

Redx

yes , correct (the company may say you are the driver, but they cannot know that for a fact) - these terms are often misused

you are appealing as keeper and the ppc need the name and address of the keeper (ideally they would like the drivers details but who is daft enough to give them those details ?)

somebody is the owner, somebody is the registered keeper, somebody (you) is the actual keeper, somebody was driving (it could have been me that was the driver)

you are appealing as keeper, so the template says it can be used IN ALL CASES , because if you read it you will see it says keeper