no gas safe cert for 6 years- tenant threatening legal action

marisco_2

Other things to consider are that your contents/buildings insurance may not pay out if damage is caused by a boiler that has not been serviced. If you have a boiler under warranty and don't service annually I think it voids the warranty also.

benjus

marisco wrote: »

Other things to consider are that your contents/buildings insurance may not pay out if damage is caused by a boiler that has not been serviced. If you have a boiler under warranty and don't service annually I think it voids the warranty also.

Boiler servicing and safety certificates are two completely different things, even if it is usually convenient to get them done at the same time. Many landlords don't bother servicing the boilers in their properties, and most owner-occupiers that do get their boilers serviced don't bother getting a safety certificate.

Jhoney_2

silvercar wrote: »

IMHO this is all about complying with the law.

Owner occupiers don't have gsc on new boilers every year. The fact that the landlord breached the law by not ensuring an annual gsc is clearly wrong. The likelihood is that the boiler is safe. I would be far more worried about the danger to a tenant's life if there was an old boiler that was already under warning notification on previous years' certificates. I would hope that the HSE would also view more seriously (with a higher penalty those cases where tenants lives had been put in danger and previous warnings ignored).

None of this bears any relation to the tenant not paying rent, and it would compromise the landlord's position to entertain any idea of allowing the arrears to lapse in return for any deal on the lack of certification.

Just to qualify, what I was agreeing with was if that's all it costs LL e.g tenant doesn't pay up - not the quid pro quo of waiving payment.

And LL position has already compromised - self inflicted on all counts. How did she run up the rental debts then? Let me guess, the EA is the T....

lighting_up_the_chalice

domcastro wrote: »

........ I was all legit but I realised sites like this one give all the little theiving tenants ammo! You have one of them. Your tenant probably got their advice from this forum!! ...........

"Thieving little tenants" can only be given ammo if they have a "thieving little landlord".

jjlandlord

lighting_up_the_chalice wrote: »

"Thieving little tenants" can only be given ammo if they have a "thieving little landlord".

They are usually very good to find excuses to justify their 'right' to their actions. Blaming the landlord is just a common one.

It's never their fault and they have rights.

It's not restricted to this type of tenants. It is just the way some people are, they usually keep failing all their life.

lighting_up_the_chalice

jbcck wrote: »

i have a tenant that is about to be evicted. She owes £3000 in rent arrears. I intend to pursue her for that amount after her eviction. However, she has threatened to 'tell the authorities' about my failure to have her boiler gas safe certified annually. The boiler was new 6 years ago, and a gas safe cert was obtained then, but due to my oversight it hasnt been certified since. I intend to do so once i gain access (she is currently denying access) and expect it to pass.

My Q is: can this tenant successfully cause trouble for me with the council etc and can she counter sue for lack of boiler certification?

(insert shock and discussed as others have already stated here)

You have 2 issues. The GSC and the rent arrears. They are entirely independent under the circumstances outlined.

Gas Safety Certificate.
Make EVERY REASONABLE EFFORT to get one done without further delay. It's been 6 years since the last one and you have no indication of the safety of your gas appliances or supply in that time. If access is refused, evidence it and get a statement from any engineer booked to confirm. Make ALL requests for access in writing and clearly state that access is required to carry out the GSC. SERVE A S21 WITHOUT ANY FURTHER DELAY!!!

The penalties for failure to have annual GSC are severe, though prison is very, very, very unlikely. (You can even poison them and keep your liberty - http://press.hse.gov.uk/2014/bolton-landlords-in-court-after-baby-boy-suffers-carbon-monoxide-poisoning/ ). In all honesty, I would be surprised if the matter even got to court. Of the cases that do make it that far, the common thread is unsafe appliances causing immediate risk and/or non compliance with notices served. To date, you have had no such notice so it is likely that a prosecution would not be deemed as "in the public interest".

Rent arrears:
Your tenant has no intention (and possibly no ability) of paying those arrears. In fact, I doubt she has much inclination to pay any more rent at all. (If she is getting HB, you can get that paid direct to you). The sooner they are replaced, the better. SERVE A S21 WITHOUT ANY FURTHER DELAY!!! Then go through the usual recovery routes, if you think it is worth the effort. It is worth remembering that you can't get blood out of a stone.

As a general rule, the law is there to protect good tenants and good landlords. The irony is that a good tenant with a good landlord don't really need that protection. However, what we have here is neither. There is fault on both sides, but they are separate faults and should be treated as such. Whatever has happened before, you need to start acting like a good landlord NOW. That includes obtaining a GSC and SERVING A S21 WITHOUT ANY FURTHER DELAY!!!

A final word of advice regarding a few of the "get out of jail free" suggestions, such as telling the court she always denied access, or that you had GSC but didn't keep them..... Contempt of court and/or perjury are the surest ways of getting a bit of jail time.

lighting_up_the_chalice

jjlandlord wrote: »

They are usually very good to find excuses to justify their 'right' to their actions. Blaming the landlord is just a common one.

It's never their fault and they have rights.

It's not restricted to this type of tenants. It is just the way some people are, they usually keep failing all their life.

I'll not argue with that point. But if the LL is fully legit and up to date, that ammo ceases to have any real impact. And the same works in reverse, of course.

G_M

diamond_dave wrote: »

...
If the tenant leaves and the OP gets a GSC straight away, can the HSE do anything about the lack of certificate in previous years? As I understand it there is no legal requirement to keep copies of the GSC's, so how can the HSE prove that there was never one in place? .....

Does anyone ever read the links provided in these threads? They are provided so people can better inform themselves, AND to back up claims/advice given.

See here again.

How long do I have to keep records?

You have to keep records for at least two years. For more information see regulation 36(3)(c) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998

jjlandlord

lighting_up_the_chalice wrote: »

But if the LL is fully legit and up to date, that ammo ceases to have any real impact.

Unfortunately, that's not true.

Just an example: in this thread it was suggested that a tenant could refuse access to his landlord wanting to carry out a GSC and a piece of advice often given on this forum is to change the locks just because a landlord wants to exercise his right to inspect the property.
Now that can have a negative impact on even the 'best' landlord out there.

Therefore, I understand domcastro's point, and agree with it.

lighting_up_the_chalice

jjlandlord wrote: »

Unfortunately, that's not true.

Just an example: in this thread it was suggested that a tenant could refuse access to his landlord and a often given advice on this forum is to change the locks.
Now that can have a negative impact on even the 'best' landlord out there.

Therefore, I understand domcastro's point, and agree with it.

Then the LL can use the protection provided by the law and obtain a court order for entry (or even possession, if he so chooses).