EDF Energy long term dispute

intelligentcreative

Hi

I have had an long on-going dispute with EDF energy dating back well over a year. I have reported this to the Ombudsman and to my complete astonishment and dismay my request has been rejected.
I am feeling a bit lost now all I want to do is get this over and done with and pay what I am legally obliged to. It's a very long dispute so I'll bullet point below and keep it as short as possible;

Note: My Gas and Electric supply are both with EDF

• After discovering I was £1000 in credit I contacted EDF to find out why and it turned out they had not billed me for my Electric for 3 years
• Took a couple of months and numerous phone calls for them to admit liability
• Took another 6 months for it to go through the billing code (with me chasing the many times)
• During this process I received many red letters and phone calls from EDF - each time I had to explain there was a dispute and that I had already filed a complaint
• Finally received a call with a decision and was offered a laughable deduction, which I refused
• Received 3 more phone calls that day upping the deduction, then felt pressured into accepting an amount with 'time' sales tactics 'you need to decide today' I was told
• Upon regretfully accepting I was told I would be emailed with T&Cs and a direct debit form to pay back the new amount monthly
• I did not receive an email so waited for a letter, I did not receive a letter either, until I then received another red letter
• I called again and was told I should have 'received an email', to which I said 'I know, but I never', I was then told 'you would have received a letter', I replied with 'I didn't'. She then back tacked and said 'It's in your EDF online messaging system', to which I replied, 'how am I supposed to know that, I've never used it'
• I'd lost my right to my (laughable) discount and my right to pay by direct debit due to EDF's incompetence (again)
• Complained to the Ombudsman and informed EDF
• Ombudsman agreed to the figure that EDF had offered me - to my amazement
• After asking many questions to the Ombudsman it turns out (and this is the important part) that EDF have, in my opinion, fudged their figures. What they have done is taken some of the money I had paid towards my Gas and attributed it to my Electric bill, hence making the amount less that they need to refund.
• So, based on that I rejected Ombudsman's decision and was told if I could provide evidence of this (evidence that my gas bill doesn't say dual fuel) they would take it into account and look at it
• Ombudsman have received my gas bill even though it does NOT say dual fuel and does not mention anywhere about attributing money paid into my gas account to my electric account
• Ombudsman rejected my evidence - no reason given
• I have just recorded a telephone conversation with the Ombudsman where I have asked "is it not my legal obligation to only pay for 1 years worth of energy in the case of the supplier being in error and admitting liability" I was told "I can't comment on your case" I said "I don't want you to comment on my case, I'm asking am I legally obliged to only pay for 1 years with of energy" I was told "sorry I can not comment, our decision is final"

To say I am fuming doesn't even come close.


What will happen next - debt collector's letter? What happens if I don't pay that? As I said, I'm not trying to get out of paying, I just want to pay for what I am legally obliged to do.

Look forward to any advice.


Regards
Andrew

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

The backbilling code is entirely voluntary (indeed one major supplier does not participate) - there is no "law" that states you only have to pay for one years worth of energy.

Statute does dictate that edf are limited to only claim for 6 years worth of debt (5 in Scotland). You are still well within this timeframe.

It's difficult to get a handle of exactly what went on. I would have assumed that the £1k credit would cover the 3 years without being billed - evidently not.

If you don't pay, edf can take you to the County Court to recover monies owed. I see no legal basis for them not winning, and the assumed position is you will have to pay costs on top.

More likely they will just apply for a warrant to fit a pre-pay meter - this basically guarantees they will get their money.

As it appears that it's not disputed the energy is owed, in your shoes I would pay it back. You used it. Energy companies are generally pretty relaxed about payment timescales, they should allow the debt to be paid off over the period it was accrued ie. 3 years.

intelligentcreative

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I have been told by the Ombudsman, also by a solicitor and have found multiple online sources that state;

What they can charge you for..

If you have made efforts to contact your supplier and they failed to provide a bill, they cannot charge you for energy you used more than a year ago.

Source: Citizens Advice (sorry can't post links)

In any case, the billing code has been applied but my dispute is that it hasn't been applied fairly and I am under no circumstances willing to pay for something that I am not obliged to. If the law was that I have to pay it, I'd cough up.

My predicament is that whilst all this is going on my electric bill is building up. To give you an rough idea of costs with my billing code applied AND with the £1000 I was in credit, EDF are claiming I owe them just over £2000. There's no way one year's worth of Electric for a very average residential consumer is £3000 (of course, this was over 8 months ago so the amount is even greater now)

I'm willing to go to court over this. Does anybody here have a similar story? Can anyone recommend a solicitor that specialises in these type of cases?

molerat

The back billing code is not law it is, as stated above, a voluntary code of practice with strict guidelines as to when it applies. The energy user has to have made some effort to alert the supplier that they have not been billed for the code to be applied which seems not to have happened here. Do not believe everything you hear from CAB, that quote above is very misleading. I would not advise going to court over this as the ombudsman has already ruled against you and see no reason why a judge would not do the same.

System

The exam question which does not appeared to have been answered is 'why did it take 3 years before the OP noticed that he had not been paying for electricity'? If it can be shown that frequent attempts were made to get a bill then EDF is morally bound to apply the BB Code - otherwise, it is nothing more than a billing error.

Why is the electricity bill increasing? Personally, I would have made sure that the electricity used this year was being paid for.

intelligentcreative

Again, thanks for the replies.

The whole story is very long and I have only posted an abbreviated version, otherwise it would be too long for anyone to bother reading.

Hengus - good question. The reason being is that the 3 years was from the beginning of my contract with EDF (when I moved into my house). As my gas and electric are both with EDF I thought I was paying for both.

Molerat - I am quoting the words of the Energy Ombudsman that I have been speaking to when I say "legally obliged' in regards to the billing code.


Fact 1.
EDF have admitted an error on their part and applied the billing code

Fact 2
The Ombudsman has told me that it is my legal right that EDF only charge me for one years worth of electric (their words, I have a recording of the conversation)

Fact 3
Myself and EDF came to an agreement 8 months ago that I would pay the claimed outstanding debt by direct debit but they failed to send the mandate by email (which is what I was told on the phone - conversation recorded). They then said I lost my right to pay by direct debit because I did not respond. Yet another blunder by EDF, they admitted fault (again) but still said I had lost my right, at which point I took it to the Ombudsman

Fact 4. EDF have told the Ombudsman that I made no attempt to pay the electric bill and have attributed money I paid for my gas, into my electric account for no other reason that to make the change the figures in their favour. I couldn't make an attempt to pay the electric bill if I didn't know I wasn't being charged and once I found out I have made every attempt to pay what I have been told I am obliged to.

I was furious, but I'm pretty calm and level headed now. What I have to laugh about is when people seem to take the side of the big corporations like EDF over someone like me who - a consumer - just like you. These guys are already making obscene profits from us, whilst destroying our planet. Come on guys, think. I'm not a chav, trying to save a bit of money. I'm an entrepreneur with several businesses, never had a debt (apart from my mortgage) and I also volunteer my time and skills to worthy causes. But I believe it's time for the people to start standing up for themselves when the corporations play their heavy handed games, with their intimidation techniques, rendering us powerless.

To make things very clear.

EDF HAVE applied the billing code.

The figures they have supplied to the Ombudsman have been MANIPULATED

The Ombudsman HAS agreed to their billing code and cannot give me a clear answer as to why they have accepted but agreed the figures don't match up with the paperwork I sent for them to investigate (conversation recorded)

lvf

intelligentcreative wrote: »

What I have to laugh about is when people seem to take the side of the big corporations like EDF over someone like me who - a consumer - just like you.

Who here in this thread have 'taken sides'? I'm reading some very well-written answers from some clearly intelligent people who understand the process, policies, procedures and regulations of the energy industry.

Some have also asked some questions which I believe require answers before people can point the finger at EDF.

I mean for example, are you honestly sitting here on a forum fuming at EDF and clearly admitting you never checked a single bill for THREE years? You never once wondered if they were using your actual meter readings on your bill?

Now EDF have made an error, have admitted said error and have given you what is essentially 2 years worth of electricity for nothing through the voluntary billing code. What more are you looking to achieve?

Don't give off to people who are simply trying to get a better understanding of the full story before they cast their judgement.

intelligentcreative

lvf - Thank you for your opinion.

System

A couple of points. Firstly, when you pay a DD to an energy company it is money paid on account. As you signed up to a dual fuel contract then I fail to see how you can argue that EDF has used money 'paid for gas' to offset your electricity charges. Secondly, having checked a previous EDF bill - I am no longer with them - it is transparently clear what people are being billed for. Under 'And Now the detail... ' it shows very clearly the breakdown of electricity and gas charges. The question you have chosen to ignore is why it took you 3 years to notice this error?

As for going forward, you have every right to take EDF to Court. That said, I am not sure what more a Court would do as it seems, to me at least, that EDF has treated you very fairly. If that is taking sides, then so be it.

intelligentcreative

Hengus. I respect your opinion and you taking the time to answer.

As I mentioned, I had always presumed I'd been paying for my Gas and Electric, it didn't occur to me to read the bill, I only ever look at the amount - yes, I know that could be deemed irresponsible and I hold my hand up to admit that.

Regardless of pointing fingers (my pointing fingers as well as yours) and saying it's my fault, or it's their fault. The cold fact of the matter is that the Ombudsman has clearly told me that EDF have agreed to only charge me for a year's worth of electric, but what they are billing me for is clearly not - and I have it as a voice recording on my phone.That is the problem I have. That is why I will be going to court.

I think if I uploaded the recordings from my conversations with EDF and the Ombudsman, a few of you here may be shocked. I don't know the privacy laws about that so I will decline, but I promise to come back and update you when this is over and done with.

Thank you all for your time and hope I didn't offend anybody. That was not my intention. You have all answered my questions and the simple matter is I didn't like the answers, but that's my problem not yours.