Apprenticeship Pay, No Contract & Long Hours.

Retrogamer

I was wondering if anyone could advise what to do in this scenario.
Posting on behalf of a friend

They started work as an apprentice chef in July this year for an independent restaurant inside a hotel.

They get paid below national minimal wage because they are an apprentice, and under 21 so not applicable at present. It's approx £2.60ph if i remember. (based on 37.5 working hours per week)

The problem that's happening now is originally they were hired to work 40 hours per week.
They still haven't been given a contract yet, but sometimes when it's busy they're being told they need to work up to 60 hours per week for no extra pay.
They say they're salaried and get the same money per week, regardless of hours.

Now i know the above is illegal if the extra hours bring you below NMW, but how does this work if NMW doesn't apply due to an apprenticeship?

I've told them to request a written copy of their contract but even if it does state things as they should be paid hourly, how would they be able to enforce this without risking their job?

As i understand it, they either work very long hours for peanuts and don't have a social life and keep quiet about it, or get their contract, speak up for their rights and risk losing their job as they've not been there longer than 2 years.

Any opinions or suggestions welcomed.

TBagpuss

do they have a mentor? Have they spoken to that person?

Employment rights are different or apprentices than for other employees, however, the working time directive applies.

Take a look at the ACAC pages relating to apprenticeships, and suggest that your friend speak to their mentor if they have one, and of not, that the contact ACAS in the first instance.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3816

have they made a written request to their manager for a copy of their contract, and clarification about the hours required?

prosaver

I would leave it and find a different job ..
its unsociable hours ...I worked in the catering business its crap
get out before its too late and you get brainwashed.....

Poppie68

They need to speak to their mentor, when one of my girls started an apprenticeship 5 years ago she was expected to work an extra 10 hours a week overtime which everyone got overtime rate of pay and she was just on her normal pay...she got nowhere herself in speaking to her manager so enlisted the help of her mentor at college who negotiated normal overtime pay for those hours.....

Retrogamer

TBagpuss wrote: »

do they have a mentor? Have they spoken to that person?

They have someone that visits them from a college once per month if that's what you mean? They just visit to do assessments with them.

TBagpuss wrote: »

Employment rights are different or apprentices than for other employees, however, the working time directive applies.

Take a look at the ACAC pages relating to apprenticeships, and suggest that your friend speak to their mentor if they have one, and of not, that the contact ACAS in the first instance.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3816

have they made a written request to their manager for a copy of their contract, and clarification about the hours required?

I'll suggest the above, thanks.
At present their manager isn't the most approachable person. Not quite Gordon Ramsey, but they like to shout and swear a lot.
When they asked the manager about overtime pay for all the extra hours, it was them that said they weren't entitled to it. No reason given except "you're an apprentice

prosaver wrote: »

I would leave it and find a different job ..
its unsociable hours ...I worked in the catering business its crap
get out before its too late and you get brainwashed.....

They have few options sadly. They stay in a more rural area in Scotland where employment prospects are very low

blondebubbles wrote: »

NMW does apply. It's just that the NMW rate is different for apprenticeships.

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Thanks, i never knew about this.


With all the advice above, i'm right in thinking if they do push to b e paid for their extra hours, the business could just get rid of them for no reason and find someone else to fill that position who'll do the extra hours without pay. Is that right?

TBagpuss

Not necessarily - apprenticeship contracts are different from normal employment contracts - it can be harder to sack, or make redundant, an apprentice.

Marktheshark

The Mentors get by by bending the rules and ignoring concerns.
They are on a mission to produce results.

In the 80's they called these Youth opportunities, now they call them "apprenticeships" .
The only difference is in real terms the wage would be £4.70 an hours based on the £30 a week of the 80's

Retrogamer

TBagpuss wrote: »

Not necessarily - apprenticeship contracts are different from normal employment contracts - it can be harder to sack, or make redundant, an apprentice.

How so?
Do you have any more information on this?

prosaver

Marktheshark wrote: »

The Mentors get by by bending the rules and ignoring concerns.
They are on a mission to produce results.

In the 80's they called these Youth opportunities, now they call them "apprenticeships" .
The only difference is in real terms the wage would be £4.70 an hours based on the £30 a week of the 80's

my birthday is in aug so when i left school i was 15 and started the old yts and earned 20p an hour an went up when i was 16 to 50p it was a con because when the 6 months was up, the employer got some new yts fodder and got rid off me, as they dont
have to pay a wage.
the government didn't question this i was back on the dole:mad:

Retrogamer

Just to update on this after i checked with them and passed on the comments.

They don't have a "mentor" as of yet.
They're just working in the kitchen, full time and no one has came from college to see them yet.
They've been working there since June/July 2014 and they keep being told someone from college will be in to see them and the date is always "soon"

They've requested a copy of their contract as well from their manager twice now but their manager has told them the people who can do this were off on annual leave at first and now they're too busy to do it but it'll get done "soon"

My friend is worried that if they refuse to work the unpaid OT, or start pushing for their contract too much they will be sacked and might not be eligible for JSA. But at the same time doesn't want things to continue the way they are either.

Any other suggestions or advice?

Marktheshark wrote: »

The Mentors get by by bending the rules and ignoring concerns.
They are on a mission to produce results.

In the 80's they called these Youth opportunities, now they call them "apprenticeships" .
The only difference is in real terms the wage would be £4.70 an hours based on the £30 a week of the 80's

That's the thing. They're only getting £102 per week, before tax for working up to 60 hours a week and often with no breaks.

marcarm

I'm an assessor/verifier and have been doing it for years, and it never fails to amaze me just how horrible some employers treat their apprentices. They see them as cheap labour.

For a start, they need to check that they really are an apprentice. Has an apprenticeship agreement been signed? It appears that one has not if they have not been issued an assessor or been on day release to college.

They should have had a contract before being able to be signed up to an apprenticeship, so something else that tells me they are not officially an apprentice.

It appears the employer is very unscrupulous in what they are doing. Employing someone for what appears to be about £1.70ph is breaking so many rules, even if they are an apprentice.

From ACAS

Many of the special protections in these regulations for young workers under 18 will apply to apprentices, for example young workers must not exceed the 8 hour a day or 40 hours per week. They are also entitled to paid holidays and rest breaks of at least 30 minutes if their shift lasts more than four and half hours.

You don't say how old your friend is, but if they are under 18 this is something else the employer is doing wrong.

If they have been 'singed up' since middle of 2014 and no one has come to see them yet they can be pretty certain there is no apprenticeship and no assessor, otherwise they would have contacted them by now.

I would suggest to your friend they need to get out of there, otherwise they will continue to get taken for a ride. It may be worth contacting the jc to see if they will get JSA, as quitting a job because they are not being paid NMW may be something they won't get penalised for, but I am no expert on this side of things.

It's no wonder people don't trust apprenticeships when this sort of thing is all too common. Do they know what qualification they are working towards? What makes up the qualification? Their planned end date? What level they are working towards?

On the other side, I was also a chef for over a decade, and wouldn't wish that career on anyone, so if your friend can find something else I would heartily recommend it.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them.