HSBC Refusing to refund stolen £1100!

sander123

Hello!

On the 11th December 2015 I went onto online banking to find out I had apparently did an online transfer for £1100 to a name I didn't recognise.

I contacted HSBC and they let their fraud operations team deal with it. Much to my disappointment I received the following letter on the 28th January 2015....

"I refer to your recent enquiry to the bank, concerning the disputed bill payment on your account dated 10 January for £1100.00. This has been forwarded to our attention and I have now fully investigated the matters you have raised.

Under the terms and conditions of your bank account you are obliged to take all reasonable precautions to prevent fraud on your account, this included keeping your person security details safe. Please find enclosed the Terms & Conditions.

This payment has been made over the internet using your security details. The above terms and conditions have been breached you are therefore liable for the payment(s).

I regret to advice you that HSBC will not be refunding you on this occasion.

Yours Sincerly

HSBC Fraud Operations"

I can't believe this response. I didn't even think this was possible using the little random code generator that HSBC give you for online banking. Where they said "You are obliged to take all reasonable precautions to prevent fraud on your account" - I thought the key pad was my reasonable precaution.

Do you think I will ever see my money again? I want to take this further!

Thanks in advance

Marktheshark

Start the official complaint process which starts the timer for the ombudsman.
Get it in now by post with a certificate of postage.

paragon909

sander123 wrote: »

Hello!

On the 11th December 2015 I went onto online banking to find out I had apparently did an online transfer for £1100 to a name I didn't recognise.

I contacted HSBC and they let their fraud operations team deal with it. Much to my disappointment I received the following letter on the 28th January 2015....

"I refer to your recent enquiry to the bank, concerning the disputed bill payment on your account dated 10 January for £1100.00. This has been forwarded to our attention and I have now fully investigated the matters you have raised.

Under the terms and conditions of your bank account you are obliged to take all reasonable precautions to prevent fraud on your account, this included keeping your person security details safe. Please find enclosed the Terms & Conditions.

This payment has been made over the internet using your security details. The above terms and conditions have been breached you are therefore liable for the payment(s).

I regret to advice you that HSBC will not be refunding you on this occasion.

Yours Sincerly

HSBC Fraud Operations"

I can't believe this response. I didn't even think this was possible using the little random code generator that HSBC give you for online banking. Where they said "You are obliged to take all reasonable precautions to prevent fraud on your account" - I thought the key pad was my reasonable precaution.

Do you think I will ever see my money again? I want to take this further!

Thanks in advance

As you said HSBC give you a pin generator that you put the card into upon setting up a new recipient. So it wouldn't be possible for someone to do this without your card and pin generator and also your pin number for the card as you normally need this first.

Also banks can check if the login was from the same IP etc as you normally login from, Even using an ip range and same ISP etc.

And if you write down pins and leave security information laying about then your liable, it's called being negligent and banks dont refund for that.

You could contact FOS but i dont see what evidence you have to show you didn't make the transfer when HSBC probably do have enough to show that it was you and your lying just to get the money back because somethings happened between you and the recipient and your bitter. Who knows, Only you do.

Marktheshark

It's the bog standard press f7 or whatever delayed template letter they send out, they investigated nothing, thats why you start the complainants procedure ASAP.

Paul_1977

Where did the money go? do you have a sort code and account number, check if the bank is local.

If you have a pin generator as said someone must of known your pin and had access to your card and your other online details, who do you live with?

sander123

Hi Mark,

I have already started the ombudsman process, so I am glad to see you also recommended this. Is it really true that they wouldn't have investigated this? Surely there's regulations to stop them lying to you :O

Paragon - Yes, you do need the key pad to set up a new recipient which is all the more baffling, I thought this was impossible to do without it, obviously not.

In the letter the bank also sent me details in which the money got sent to e.g. Name, sort code, account number, originating location.
What is confusing is that the sort code (950381) points to a Northern Irish bank branch (I googled it), yet the Originating location says "INBANK", which I believe is an Italian bank (also googled).

Thanks for replies

Ed-1

HSBC don't use card readers - they use secure keys which are unique to the customer.

The only way a person could log in to someone else's HSBC online banking is to have the customer's secure key and know the PIN for it. To set up a new payment you also need the secure key.

badgers1975

One this also to remember is that You don't have to put a complaint in writing. You need to state in call that you wish to make a formal complaint . The timer for them starts at that point. They then have to either resolve it early, or if that fails there is strict guidance they have to adhere to. Complaints procedures and complaint recording is something FOS have been looking into a lot in the last year.

Make sure you take the full name and record the date and time of the conversation. If in the future this cannot be found, the burden of proof lies on them. As well as a failure of due diligence. All of which add to your case.

It's also worth knowing that it costs a financial institution £500+ to simply answer a case at the ombudsman irrespective of any outcome.

Having Spoken to FOS in the past if you can give a clear case on the advice line they may well send the complaint on your behalf.

sander123

I live in Newcaslte Upon Tyne, so Northern Ireland and Italy aren't too close lol. I live by myself so no one has access to anything

paragon909

badgers1975 wrote: »

One this also to remember is that You don't have to put a complaint in writing. You need to state in call that you wish to make a formal complaint . The timer for them starts at that point. They then have to either resolve it early, or if that fails there is strict guidance they have to adhere to. Complaints procedures and complaint recording is something FOS have been looking into a lot in the last year.

Make sure you take the full name and record the date and time of the conversation. If in the future this cannot be found, the burden of proof lies on them. As well as a failure of due diligence. All of which add to your case.

It's also worth knowing that it costs a financial institution £500+ to simply answer a case at the ombudsman irrespective of any outcome.

Having Spoken to FOS in the past if you can give a clear case on the advice line they may well send the complaint on your behalf.

Go to the police and report fraud, Use the name and account details it were sent to and the police will be able to trace the person or where it went but might not disclose information.

Have you been to the police???

10pence

paragon909 wrote: »

As you said HSBC give you a pin generator that you put the card into upon setting up a new recipient. So it wouldn't be possible for someone to do this without your card and pin generator and also your pin number for the card as you normally need this first.

HSBC Secure Key doesn't have a slot for a card to be inserted - Barlcays does but not HSBC's device. See LINK for more.

Card and PIN number aren't used or necessary.

If I recall correctly, the Secure Key is only needed at the end of creating and paying a new FP beneficiary, where you input the last few digits of the beneficiary account number.

AS well as filing a complint with the bank I would first report it to Action Fraud (http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/), then you can supply HSBC a crime reference number.

Don't b surprised if HSBC demand you do some security checks on your computer, as in they ask you to check for malware etc, as having out of date anti-malware could be deemed enough to show you've not taken enough precautions to protect you PC and thus PIB (Personal Internet Banking). They use to block PIB and only reactivate it after you've signed a form stating you've made these checks.