Windscreen PCN - POPLA stage

TB2013

Hi,

I’ve found this forum a bit late, as I have already sent an appeal to the company (secure-a-space) on two tickets issued via windscreen. So far they have rejected both and I have a POPLA appeal code for both. I’m in England.

Quick overview; I own a flat on some land that I pay ground rent on (along with maintenance etc.), and I have 1 parking space. There are 4 spaces near this that are marked VP (visitor parking), and recently signs were put up to say 24 hour stay only, no return within 48 hours.

I’ve read over most of this site, and see that I should have done a few things differently, and that secure-a-space is listed specifically to create a thread on. Please see their sign (clearly sign posted in front of bays) at:

xxxx://i.imgur.com/CqJFTWz.png

Here is a quick overview of what’s happened. Note that I also got a ticket on a hire car at the same time as ticket 1 that I appealed 4 hours prior, and received an auto response (you’ll see that I did not get this for the other tickets). This was paid at a reduced rate of £30 due to it being a hire car and I was worried of further charges.

21/12/14
Ticket 1 issued. Appeal sent on 23/12/14 explaining that my visitor (no names of driver/keeper mentioned) parked here and that I pay rent etc. so expected them to be allowed to park here, and that the charge was extortionate (£100, £60 if paid within 14 days). As mentioned, I received no auto email.

07/01/15
My visitor returned to the parking space 3 hours before the 48 hour period expired and got another ticket. Ok not good, but still I appealed stating I wanted a break down of the costs, as it was extortionate for something that costs nothing to park in with no loss. Again, no auto-email was received to acknowledge my appeal

I emailed my management company at the same time saying I was not happy, and that ticket number 1 needed to be cancelled due to no communication received within 14 days (acknowledgement or response) as stated in the BPA code of conduct. They said that they do not pay this company, they are hired free of charge and the PPC’s only profit is from these charges. They recommended to the PPC that the 2 tickets be reduced to £30.

23/01/15
I finally get a response for ticket 1 after 30 days of no communication. The rejection letter refers to an appeal date of 07/01/15 rather than the correct date of 23/12/14, and references the email between the management company (they were copied in) and not my original appeal. A few hours later, a rejection for ticket 2 arrived (16 days no comms) with the exact same letter, again referring to the email between the management company and not the actual appeal email I sent. They stated that the tickets were a complex case because they had to speak about it to my management company. I then contacted management again, asking why it took 16 days from the original email to decide on the result, and they replied saying they had not communicated with the PPC since our emails on the 07/01/15.

Am I right in thinking that if the appeal was received, the tickets should have been frozen? They both increased to £100 after 14 days. They state an auto-email was sent, but I never received one, do I need to prove otherwise? The fact that both tickets currently sit at £30, will that go against me? I’m wondering if it’s easier to just pay the combined £60 and be done with it all. They lied about it being complex with it taking a further 16 days with talks to my management company when they confirmed they had no further comms since the 7th.

I have the POPLA codes, is it worth appealing through them?

Many thanks in advance.

TB2013

Is anyone able to assist? Many thanks, I don't mean to bump but I have until Friday to pay the reduced price.

Umkomaas

To be honest the lengthy account you've given is of little relevance. Looking at the dates of the parking events you need to check that the POPLA codes are still current. Do that here:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/

If still current you need to send two separate POPLA appeals - but if the general contexts are both the same, the appeals can too be the same - but sent separately.

Look at the POPLA appeals section of the NEWBIES FAQS sticky, post #3 for examples.

TB2013

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

The rejection letters were received on 23/01/15 so I have just under 3 weeks still, with 5 or so until the 14 days are up to pay the reduced amount.

The sticky mentions that for this PPC to create a thread, I've posted a link to the sign. I'm not sure if this means that they are harder to win against, or something else. I'll go the POPLA route if it is advised for this PPC

ampersand

Sorry, op - I'm not clear on POPLA ref. receipt dates.

When this is done and dusted i.e. when you win at POPLA:-), I'd reallly move on mgmt co., for this:
' referring to the email between the management company and not the actual appeal email I sent. They stated that the tickets were a complex case because they had to speak about it to my management company. I then contacted management again, asking why it took 16 days from the original email to decide on the result, and they replied saying they had not communicated with the PPC since our emails on the 07/01/15'
Fibs ahoy!

and I suspect you'll enjoy, find useful info., chez Parking Prankster
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-min=2015-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2016-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=17
#
You have read this Thread presumably?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5142519

Umkomaas

Here's the link to the sign:

http://i.imgur.com/CqJFTWz.png

Can you also scan/photo and post link to a redacted copy of the NTK for us to see please (both sides of the letter)? Are they claiming keeper liability under PoFA? There's nothing on the signage that suggests that (other than applying to the DVLA for RK data), so let's have a quick look at their paperwork.

Don't worry about the 'reduced fee', we'll help you get that down to £0.00. Don't go paying them anything or they'll be always on your case. You need to give them a smack on the snout so that in future they will be avoiding your case altogether. The 2 x POPLA fees (£54) they'll need to pay will give them a foretaste of what's ahead if they keep ticketing you.

TB2013

Umkomaas wrote: »

Here's the link to the sign:

-

Can you also scan/photo and post link to a redacted copy of the NTK for us to see please (both sides of the letter)? Are they claiming keeper liability under PoFA? There's nothing on the signage that suggests that (other than applying to the DVLA for RK data), so let's have a quick look at their paperwork.

Don't worry about the 'reduced fee', we'll help you get that down to £0.00. Don't go paying them anything or they'll be always on your case. You need to give them a smack on the snout so that in future they will be avoiding your case altogether. The 2 x POPLA fees (£54) they'll need to pay will give them a foretaste of what's ahead if they keep ticketing you.

Thanks Umkomaas, it's much appreciated.

No NTK (or any letters) have been received at the keeper address so far, the only thing I've had from them is the windscreen ticket (link below for details) and obviously the sign above. Should I have received something by now?

Ticket: xxxx://imgur.com/TxQmxMY

Umkomaas

https://www.imgur.com/TxQmxMY

As they've not sent a NtK, the signage doesn't mention PoFA 2012 and the NtD (windscreen ticket) doesn't mention PoFA 2012 either, they can only pursue the driver.

So in your POPLA appeals (surprised they've given you codes) you appeal as the keeper and state that as no compliant NtK has been issued, the registered keeper cannot be held liable under PoFA 2012. Wait to send your POPLA appeals off until a couple of days before each of the deadlines (but don't miss them) which will give the PPC no opportunity to send one out last minute NtKs.

Look in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 'How to win at POPLA' link, there may be examples of similar cases (but not necessarily the same PPC). You can also check the POPLA Decisions sticky.

As well as the non-issue of a compliant NtK, you will also need to have signage, locus standi, no contract to issue charges appeal paras as per other POPLA examples in the stickies.

TB2013

Umkomaas wrote: »

-

As they've not sent a NtK, the signage doesn't mention PoFA 2012 and the NtD (windscreen ticket) doesn't mention PoFA 2012 either, they can only pursue the driver.

So in your POPLA appeals (surprised they've given you codes) you appeal as the keeper and state that as no compliant NtK has been issued, the registered keeper cannot be held liable under PoFA 2012. Wait to send your POPLA appeals off until a couple of days before each of the deadlines (but don't miss them) which will give the PPC no opportunity to send one out last minute NtKs.

Look in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 'How to win at POPLA' link, there may be examples of similar cases (but not necessarily the same PPC). You can also check the POPLA Decisions sticky.

As well as the non-issue of a compliant NtK, you will also need to have signage, locus standi, no contract to issue charges appeal paras as per other POPLA examples in the stickies.

Many thanks again Umkomaas. I shall wait to see if the NtK arrives (it's day 44 today) and shall post back on here nearer the POPLA deadline (18 days time). In the mean time I shall read up as much as I can on this forum.

On a side note, does anyone have any experience in management companies hiring these parking companies to manage the land? It was apparently agreed with the committee to enforce this, but I never received any notice of this - the signs just appeared one day. I need to check my lease (which I believe mentions my own allocated space but not sure whether it says about other bays/parking) but am I in the right to tell management that I do not accept this enforcement?

ampersand

TB2013 -
A.S.A.P. - remove 2nd mention of vehicle reg.no. :-)

Is the reverse blank?

TB2013

Ooops - thanks ampersand!! I'll get that fixed.

It's blank on the other side of the ticket. I've read over the rejection letter again and there is no mention of the keeper/NtK/POFA2012 in that either. Just that they want payment.

Details from the DVLA can be requested after 28 days I believe, is this from the date of ticket issue, or does appealing (freezing the ticket) push this back? I only ask because I appealed on the 23rd Dec but the rejection letter says they received my appeal on the 7th Jan (aka they did not acknowldge or respond within 14 days)