UKPC parking ticket in courtesy car

Nictay

Hello, just wondering if anyone could give me some help with the appeal to POPLA? I recently got a parking ticket in a free car park for not parking in a bay. I was going to the cinema with friends and couldn't find a space anywhere so I parked at the side of the cinema with around 30 other cars. Every car had a ticket when we left and I only noticed the sign once finding the ticket as it was under an unlit street light and really high up (not really visible on a dark January evening). I appealed and wasn't successful. Should I appeal to POPLA or pay the fine? I was in a courtesy car at the time but no longer have it. Any helps appreciated. Thanks

Fight_the_good_fight

Before you get the advice you need the regulars will need more info
Date,location offence,

Have you submitted an appeal to the PPC company if not you need to apply to them first especially with being a lease vehicle and they pay on your behalf and charge you

And more importantly have you visited the newbies thread where most if not all info is located as no one is going to spoon feed the information wihout a bit of leg work :money:

Redx

nictay wrote: »

should i appeal to popla ?

yes

click on the HOW TO WIN AT POPLA in the NEWBIES sticky thread

nictay wrote: »

should i pay the fine?

nooooooooooooooooo !

---

and its not a fine , its an invoice

Nictay

The date was the 10.1.15 and I appealed straight away and heard back off them on the 28.1.15. I've read some of the POPLA successful appeals but struggled to find one similar to mine. I know it was a free car park so they haven't incurred a loss with me parking there. I've had to admit it was me driving so the letters came to me rather than the hire company.

Redx

you only had to admit to being the keeper, not the driver, it could have been me driving

forget about "what happened" and draft up an appeal based on legal arguments, not including POFA 2012 seeing as you admitted being the driver

so not a gpeol , no contract , poor signage etc (get photos of the poor unlit signage)

Nictay

I wish to appeal a recent parking charge from UKPC. I believe I am not liable for the parking charge on the following grounds:

1) No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers.
UKPC do not own the land mentioned and have not provided any evidence that they are lawfully entitled to demand money from a driver or keeper. Under the BPA CoP Section 7, a landowner contract must specifically allow UKPC to pursue charges in their own name in the courts and grant them the right to form contracts with drivers. I require UKPC to produce a copy of the contract with the landowner as I believe it is not compliant with the CoP and without it, UKPC have no legal standing nor authority at this site which could impact on visiting drivers.
If UKPC produce a 'witness statement' I contend that there is no proof whatsoever that the alleged signatory has ever seen the relevant contract terms, or, indeed is even an employee of the landowner. I contend, if such a witness statement is submitted instead of the landowner contract itself, that this should be disregarded as unreliable and not proving full BPA compliance nor legal standing.

2) No genuine pre-estimate of loss.
The Notice from UKPC alleges that a breach of the terms and conditions of parking have occurred and so the charge levied must be damages that UKPC are seeking in redress. But this car park is free and there is no provision for the purchasing of a ticket or any other means for paying for parking. There was no damage nor obstruction caused so there can be no loss arising from the incident. Given there has been no genuine pre-estimate of loss the charge levied is unenforceable and the charge should be cancelled.

The Office of Fair Trading has stated to the BPA Ltd that a 'parking charge' is not automatically recoverable simply because it is stated to be a parking charge, as it cannot be used to state a loss where none exists. And the BPA Code of Practice states that a charge for breach must wholly represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss flowing from the parking event, so this charge breaches the code and is unenforceable.

3) Lack of signage
I see that the sign is placed high up and is unlit, so that in darkness no signs are visible and the words are unreadable. I put UKPC to strict proof otherwise; as well as a site map they must show photos in darkness taken without a camera flash. There is no entrance sign and the sign is not prominent, not reflective & placed too high to be lit by headlights and was also placed under an unlit street light. A Notice is not imported into the contract unless brought home so prominently that the party 'must' have known of it and agreed terms. The driver did not see any sign; there was no consideration/acceptance and no contract agreed between the parties.

The sign also breaches the BPA CoP Appendix B which effectively renders it unable to form a contract with a driver in the hours of darkness: ''Signs should be readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness...when parking enforcement activity takes place at those times. This can be achieved...by direct lighting or by using the lighting for the parking area. If the sign itself is not directly or indirectly lit...should be made of a retro-reflective material similar to that used on public roads''.

4) UNLAWFUL PENALTY CHARGE
Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged, this 'charge' can only be an unlawful attempt at dressing up a penalty to impersonate a parking ticket. This was the case in several compelling and comparable Court decisions such as UKCPS v Murphy April 2012 (a case involving a disabled bay and no Blue Badge, where the 'Parking Charge' was found to be a penalty). Also Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008) also OBServices v Thurlow (review, February 2011) and in Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011).

The BPA Ltd (seeking advice on behalf of all AOS members, including UKPC) was warned about such charges being unenforceable by the Office of Fair Trading in 2013. The information that the Office of Fair Trading gave to the BPA Ltd on parking charges expressed the view that a parking charge will not automatically be recoverable, simply because it is stated to be a parking charge. It cannot be used to create a loss where none exists. It will not be recoverable if the court finds that it is being imposed as a penalty. If a parking charge is imposed for {breach} under a contract, in order for it to be recoverable as liquidated damages, the court will need to be satisfied of a number of matters, including that it represents a genuine pre-estimate of the loss incurred and that it meets the requirements of applicable consumer protection legislation, for example the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. The OFT also expressed the view that the court will also need to be satisfied about who the consumer was contracting with and that this is the party bringing proceedings.

This transparently punitive charge by UKPC is therefore unenforceable.

I respectfully ask the POPLA assessor to consider my points and order that this charge be cancelled.

Does this sound ok? Or should I take anything out or add anything in? I'm going to also include a photo of the sign under the unlit street light. Thanks again for your help

Nictay

Wanting to send it ASAP so just wanting some reassurance that it's ok?

Redx

looks ok to me, not saying its perfect but not seen any errors such as the wrong ppc etc

I would add bullet points headers in a numbered menu form above the main points (none there at the moment) so the assessor can easily see the grounds of the appeal points easily

so , an opening precis , then a numbered menu of the headers, then the main appeal below containing the full explanations of each header

you will see this scheme in various winning popla appeals

lastly , I would expand the not a gpeol section to specifically exclude the running costs of the business as these PPC`s tend to try to include all their fees, like wardens , cameras , uniforms , office costs , popla costs etc

again, you will see examples of this in other popla appeals

ampersand

Suggestion, op. Choke off wriggle room, lose 1st person:
'3) Lack of signage
[STRIKE]I see that[/STRIKE] The sign is placed high up and is unlit, so that in darkness no signs are visible and the words are unreadable. I put UKPC to strict proof otherwise; as well as a site map they must show contemporaneous photos- taken in darkness without a camera flash.'
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Include 'contemporaneous' because ukpc must show what was in place on date of parking event[they can't/won't, of course, very sad:-)]